Tell me about 45-70 Lever actions. What is it good for?

[em9sredbeam]

Well, for some reason I have always wanted one, and it looks like one may be available to me at a really good price. What is 45-70 a good round for? What distances, and is it a good hunting round? What size game? What is the recoil like or compared to? I reload so ammo price isn't really a problem.

[CalTeacher]

I have a Marlin 1895 and it is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. The 45-70 round is very versatile, especially in a strong action such as the Marlin. I have two loads that I shoot: 14gr. of Unique under a 405gr cast bullet @1200fps, and 48.5gr of H4198 under a 300gr Barnes TSX for hunting deer and elk. The first load has a very mild recoil comparable to a light 12g load. My hunting load is not for the meek. It pushes that bullet right around 1960fps and has the recoil to match. When shooting from a bench, this load produces a significant amount of recoil and muzzle "jump." When shooting from a standing, or kneeling position, however, the recoil isn't bad at all.

I have a Williams peep sight and the standard front post and can easily ring steel plates at 300yds. Past that distance becomes problematic because of the holdover necessary. This isn't a round designed for long range precision shooting because the velocity and ballistic coefficient of the bullets simply aren't up to that particular task. It will, however, drop nearly anything on this continent within 200yds with the right bullet.

[The Gleam]

Tell me about 45-70 Lever actions. What is it good for?

Good for about 300 yards.

[dfletcher]

Well, for some reason I have always wanted one, and it looks like one may be available to me at a really good price. What is 45-70 a good round for? What distances, and is it a good hunting round? What size game? What is the recoil like or compared to? I reload so ammo price isn't really a problem.

Factory 45/70 is to reloaded 45/70 like 38 Special is to 357 Magnum - so reloading really makes the 45/70 worthwhile in the Marlin 1895 line.

I have the Guide Gun and a Gibbs Enfield bolt, a 14" Contender pistol also. I use "Marlin 1895" loads in all of them and generally a 300 JSP will do 1,900 to 2,100 fps. It gives a pretty good belt in the Marlin, I suspect that's due to weight and the drop of the stock. The Gibbs is pretty good and the handgun is fine - limp wristing the shot helps.

I think you can hunt from deer to anything in North America with the right bullet and load. Very versatile. I'd keep hunting shots about 200 yds but the 45/70 is capable of great long range accuracy - look up black powder cartridge shooting and you'll see they can lob in 400 brain bullets pretty well.

[BillyGoatMachine]

Good for killing bears. Recoil isn't that bad if the stock is set right on your shoulder. I bought mine for pigs. Accuracy at 100y is around 2-2.5 moa with a 3x scout scope. Plenty.

[003]

PENETRATION: THE 45-70 & 458 MAGNUMS
The following article is based on bullet penetration test results as measured in water-saturated penetration materials (wet newspapers). Water is the primary substance of life, and constitutes about 90% of the content of all mammals. I have observed that some "testers" have chosen wood boards or dry newspapers for penetration testing material, and this is a very poor choice, which in no way simulates the characteristics of a bullet impact with animal flesh. Wood tends to channel the bullet path, and is less demonstrative of the terminal instabilities inherent to non-expanding bullets when impacting game animals, and is thus an inferior material for the testing of bullet penetration characteristics. Water-saturated penetration materials such as newspapers or ballistic gelatin are far superior with regards to their ability to demonstrate the terminal instabilities that typically occur when non-expanding bullets impact live animal flesh. - Randy Garrett

There are few things in the world of ballistics less well understood than the issues relating to comparative penetration. It is commonly believed that the faster one drives a solid bullet, the deeper the penetration. We see this all the time in the various attempts, via new calibers, to achieve higher velocity for improved performance on heavy game. The current rage among big bore shooters seems to be the 458 Lott, since it achieves a good 200-300 fps higher velocity than the 458 Winchester Magnum. It is claimed that the new 458 Lott is an improvement over the 458 Winchester Magnum since its higher velocity supposedly results in more lethal impact-effect and deeper penetration. This, it is claimed, is just the ticket for busting the heaviest game. Of course, the new 458 Lott also achieves greater kinetic energy as a result of its higher velocity, and this is also a convincing characteristic for those brave souls in pursuit of the heaviest game.

Despite all the impressive "science" deployed to reinforce the assertion that higher speed projectiles are more capable of inflicting the deep penetration and impact-effect required to reliably anchor heavy game, one finds that these assertions simply do not withstand common sense, repeatable penetration testing. In fact, if one conducts these tests, one finds that there is nothing that can be observed which supports the assertion that the faster one drives non-expanding solids the deeper they penetrate.

Very interestingly, if one takes the Hornady 500-grain .458 diameter solid bullet and compares the penetration that results from impact speeds varying from about 1500-fps to 2500-fps, one finds that the higher impact speeds produce the least penetration. When driven to about 1500-fps (as the 45-70 will do) one finds that such solids produce nearly 6-feet of penetration in wet newspapers. When the same bullet is driven to about 2100-fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Winchester Magnum) one finds that the penetration is reduced to about 4 to 4 and 1/2 feet. When one tests the same bullet at 2300-2400 fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Lott) one finds that the penetration comes up nearly 20% short of that produced by the 458 Winchester. And when one tests the same bullet at the blistering speeds characteristic of the mighty 460 Weatherby Magnum, one finds that the penetration achieved is the most shallow produced by the various 458s.

What is apparent from testing is that penetration stops increasing at impact speeds above about 1250-1300 fps. When the impact speeds significantly surpass about 1600-fps, there is a very definite and measurable decrease in penetration depth. This raises some interesting issues regarding the relationship between kinetic energy generation and impact-effect. Although higher velocity projectiles always generate more kinetic energy they clearly do not produce deeper penetration, and when the velocities reach the levels common to today's magnums, the increases in velocity result in significantly reduced penetration. Simply stated, the faster they strike the faster they stop.

Fortunately for all of us who shoot the 45-70, it can be considered to be the deepest penetrating of the various 458 calibers. This is not due to any particular inherent superiority, but due to the 45-70's "inability" to achieve the velocity with heavy bullets that leads to decreases in penetration. The reasons why high impact speeds reduce penetration are not well understood. However, anyone who takes the time to run comparative penetration tests will find that those of us who pack a good 45-70 with heavy bullets need not take a back seat to any other 458 caliber, especially when the game is heavy and the penetration requirements are great.

- Randy Garrett

[003]

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=35

[zfields]

Love mine.





As for what it is it good for? Anything that smaller calibers arent : )






In all honesty, I bought mine for a pig gun. Some nasty stuff happened, so still havent been able to get out and use it. Great caliber to reload for, lots of versatility in the caliber. Load up some 300-350 grain soft points for deer, then bump up to the 405-430+ for pigs or bear.

[JoshuaS]

Do note that factory loads are often on the weaker side, unless specifically designed for lever actions.

If you look at reloading data, they usually give at least two, if not three sets of data. One for trap-door guns (max pressure 25,000), one for lever guns (40,000) and one for single shot Ruger number 1 (50,000 max pressure)

But factory has to aim to be workable in all guns. Though I believe there is quite a bit of factory ammo designed for the 1895 Marlin, not safe in a trap-door.

[zfields]

Do note that factory loads are often on the weaker side, unless specifically designed for lever actions.

If you look at reloading data, they usually give at least two, if not three sets of data. One for trap-door guns (max pressure 25,000), one for lever guns (40,000) and one for single shot Ruger number 1 (50,000 max pressure)

But factory has to aim to be workable in all guns. Though I believe there is quite a bit of factory ammo designed for the 1895 Marlin, not safe in a trap-door.

Nearly all the factory non specialty ammo I have seen is loaded for trapdoor

Sent from my HTC Droid Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

[em9sredbeam]

Load data and bullets used would be welcomed as well. thanks for the information guys, assuming nothing changes, I think I am going to go for it depending on the make and condition.

[finyllw]

When you're done messing around with them wimpy loads, come shoot my single shot 45-100.

[em9sredbeam]

When you're done messing around with them wimpy loads, come shoot my single shot 45-100.

I am down. Too bad you aren't local. Got to try my friend's 458 lott, that was pretty cool.

[SFCRangerDoc]

When you're done messing around with them wimpy loads, come shoot my single shot 45-100.

And when you're really done shooting wimpy stuff, try a 50-110 Turnbull makes a mean thumper lever gun in that

http://www.turnbullmfg.com/store.asp?pid=37336

[SFCRangerDoc]

also, read this...45-70 out to 2 miles range. I know for a fact that my uncle's Shiloh sharps rifles in 45-70 will shoot sub moa at 1k yds with iron sights. Hes a phenomenal shooter and the gun is retardedly accurate.

http://home.earthlink.net/~sharpsshtr/CritterPhotos/SandyHook/SandyHook.html

ironic the test were done at sandy hook.