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**Teletiger7** · 03-28-2008, 10:27 AM

If you are educated regarding the laws of OLLs and the LEO is not then it's a great oppurtunity to educate or show him what a cali-legal oll is like. That way in the future he won't have the same question. Show him a copy of the OLL guide. Show him a copy of the applicable laws that are also available. I have a envelope in my gun case that I keep legal information in. Basically, i printed out the OLL guide chart and a copy of the laws regarding OLLs. If anyone asks me about legality I show them this specific information, which very clearly defines what is/isn't legal.

**Blacktail 8541** · 03-28-2008, 10:29 AM

I have taken the stance of being very open with my OLLs. Any one currius, includeing LEOs' gets the "speach". It is short and to the point about sb23 definitions I also keep a copy of pertinant info collected from this site.

So far no trouble from Leo personel or the 2 DOJ field agents that have checked them. In short, Know your laws and be confident in your presantation of them and you will most likely not have any problems.

**aplinker** · 03-28-2008, 10:40 AM

Let me start by saying the number of posts here about worries of an LEO interaction, vs. actual incidents, is about 10,000:1

With LEOs the order of the day is: act respectable and command respect, while being respectful.

Know the laws, front to back, be friendly and see it as a chance to show them your cool toys that they, and anyone else, can have, too.

LEOs are just people.

**ViPER395** · 03-28-2008, 10:46 AM

I think the OP's point is that he, like me, is non-confrontational.

He doesn't want to talk to LEO's, he doesn't want to have to 'educate' them on things they should already know, or be bothered about his legal firearms while minding his own business at a public range.

**cypher** · 03-28-2008, 10:56 AM

I, as well, keep complete documentation regarding the legality of my OLL in my case at all times and I am very aware of the laws (thanks very much to CalGuns), but as ViPER put it i just don't like dealing with LEO's and would like to avoid having to get into a debate with an uneducated LEO about the legality. For some reason LEO always make me feel like i am doing something wrong even when i am not. SO i guess i am trying to figure out a respectful way to say "leave me alone, my gun is legal" and what my options to refuse the inspection are.

**PIRATE14** · 03-28-2008, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by ViPER395

I think the OP's point is that he, like me, is non-confrontational.

He doesn't want to talk to LEO's, he doesn't want to have to 'educate' them on things they should already know, or be bothered about his legal firearms while minding his own business at a public range.

OKAY....it's a "PUBLIC RANGE" the people will be there....LEOs don't go to OLL School, no such thing, and they don't have a AW class either...SO, YOU have to take some responsiblility for a small piece of SOCIETY and educate......

Not tryin to pick on anyone but if you go outside......you might have to deal w/ people and LEOs.....

I don't think "non-confrontational" means you can't talk to LEOs....as long as your stuff is legit....

COME on guys take the responsibilty of being part of something......

If your afraid or intimdated by LE, than something is very wrong w/ our society....

**ViPER395** · 03-28-2008, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by PIRATE14

If your afraid or intimdated by LE, than something is very wrong w/ our society....

Yes. Yes there is...

This is one of the main reasons I don't go to public ranges. I don't want to be bothered by anyone while I shoot. Especially nosey cops. Why do cops go to public ranges, don't they have their own ranges? They play cop on the street, do they have to play range cop too? Thats what RMs are for.

And don't confuse LEO with the general public. Some old fart expressing interest in an OLL at a range is different than being interrogated by LEO who should know the law he's accusing any OLL bearer of breaking.

**cmaynes** · 03-28-2008, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by ViPER395

Yes. Yes there is...

This is one of the main reasons I don't go to public ranges. I don't want to be bothered by anyone while I shoot. Especially nosey cops. Why do cops go to public ranges, don't they have their own ranges? They play cop on the street, do they have to play range cop too? Thats what RMs are for.

And don't confuse LEO with the general public. Some old fart expressing interest in an OLL at a range is different than being interrogated by LEO who should know the law he's accusing any OLL bearer of breaking.

If you are at a public range, I would expect that the Range Officers would have complete liberty in verifying your weapon is legally being used and is safe- If there is an LEO there- even off duty- he still a sworn official- If he wants to casually examine your rifle (and it is not packed up) it is best to be open- If it is cased- he technically will need probable cause & potentially a warrant- Note to self- do not bring crack to range stored in rifle case.... If this road is taken, have your act together. It would be wise to have the documentation present as well if the LEO is less than informed about the state of legislation.

Most cops are nice folks- and they know that nice folks shoot at public ranges, so be cool- so they can be cool.

cm

**Timberwolf** · 03-28-2008, 12:20 PM

I look at threads like this and some of the comments and truly if it wasn't so sad I'd laugh.

The OLL issue is a controversial issue at best, that has lead itself to many interpretations. Right, wrong, good or bad all laws can and are interpreted different by different people . . . get a clue they're written that way. You may read it one way and think that it says something because thats what you want to believe it says. Someone else may have a different understanding. It often takes a trial court to determine whose interpretation is best on that given day, yeah on that given day. And then it takes the Court of Appeal to determine which trial court's interpretations is best, etc etc.

Right now there is no right or wrong with the OLL issue, its grey area.

Bottom line if you're not prepared to address the issue don't put yourself in a situation where you may have to.

**fairfaxjim** · 03-28-2008, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by PIRATE14

If your afraid or intimdated by LE, than something is very wrong w/ our society....

Something is indeed very wrong with our society! I'm not afraid or intimidated by LE, but I DO NOT TRUST THEM! Not for 1 second. They have been indoctrinated and trained that a civilian with a firearm is a threat to them, and they will do anything, often not legal things, to neutralize you as a threat if you have a firearm. This comes from the attitude at the very top of LE administration, and the politicos that are their their bosses. It has been going on for quite a while, and has become pervasive throughout the rank and file officers, particularly in urban areas.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of great LEO's out there, a lot that are gun savy and know the gun laws. Problem is, I don't know who those are, and there are a lot more that have, through training and experience (and lack of training, I belive on purpose), the attitude that I am a threat to them, and they would be better off if I didn't have a firearm. I simply don't trust people who are threatened by me, and have so much power to wield.

Besides, at the range, unless the LEO in question is on duty, has a specified task at that range, is executing that task, and that task has to do with firearms enforcement, he doesn't have any authority to be questioning people's firearms. There is NO PC for that.

If he is truly interested, and approaches as any other civilian Joe would, I have no problem with showing, explaining, and I usually offer to let people fire a few rounds to try them out. If he comes on with some LE mumbo jumbo, SHOW ME THE WARRANT!

**Timberwolf** · 03-28-2008, 12:29 PM

As far as the issue of LEOs at public ranges - give me a f**king break. No they don't all have adequate range facilities or access to them. And gee, I guess some of them actually like to shoot and would like to have a plce they can go on their off time and maybe even take their family to.

But, I guess since we want to make public ranges LEO free zones maybe we should just ban people who own OLLs too. After all what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And if the thought of that doesn't sit very well with ya, think how the LEO feel. They have to deal with it every day.

**ViPER395** · 03-28-2008, 12:29 PM

That's what i'm talking about, jim

Originally posted by fairfaxjim

Something is indeed very wrong with our society! I'm not afraid or intimidated by LE, but I DO NOT TRUST THEM! Not for 1 second. They have been indoctrinated and trained that a civilian with a firearm is a threat to them, and they will do anything, often not legal things, to neutralize you as a threat if you have a firearm. This comes from the attitude at the very top of LE administration, and the politicos that are their their bosses. It has been going on for quite a while, and has become pervasive throughout the rank and file officers, particularly in urban areas.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of great LEO's out there, a lot that are gun savy and know the gun laws. Problem is, I don't know who those are, and there are a lot more that have, through training and experience (and lack of training, I belive on purpose), the attitude that I am a threat to them, and they would be better off if I didn't have a firearm. I simply don't trust people who are threatened by me, and have so much power to wield.

Besides, at the range, unless the LEO in question is on duty, has a specified task at that range, is executing that task, and that task has to do with firearms enforcement, he doesn't have any authority to be questioning people's firearms. There is NO PC for that.

If he is truly interested, and approaches as any other civilian Joe would, I have no problem with showing, explaining, and I usually offer to let people fire a few rounds to try them out. If he comes on with some LE mumbo jumbo, SHOW ME THE WARRANT!

**ViPER395** · 03-28-2008, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Timberwolf

As far as the issue of LEOs at public ranges - give me a f**king break. No they don't all have adequate range facilities or access to them. And gee, I guess some of them actually like to shoot and would like to have a plce they can go on their off time and maybe even take their family to.

If they go on their off time, then why would they be hassling people about their firearms in an intimidating official manner?

**Timberwolf** · 03-28-2008, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by ViPER395

If they go on their off time, then why would they be hassling people about their firearms in an intimidating official manner?

I guess the same reason they might give a second look if they thought someone was shoplifting, etc etc.

They have a job to do and it matters little if they are on duty or not.

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