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Piston AR preconceptions...

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  • integr8d
    Junior Member
    • Oct 2012
    • 45

    Piston AR preconceptions...

    Sup guys. New here. Been a Cali taxpayer for the better part of 12 years now. Having come from S.C. (where everything short of a Howitzer is legal) yeah, you already know where I'm going with that thought. But anyway, I guess it's time to contribute to some threads.

    I've been thinking about getting into a piston AR. I don't want to drop a lot of coin at first. This is just something to do. It's actually something I'd like to add to, over time. But it has to start somewhere.

    I have a few questions. And if anyone that can answer them, I'd appreciate it...

    1. I've read in numerous threads, debating the pro/cons of DI and piston-driven platforms, that "...piston guns are heavier". I read it all over the place. Where are people getting this info? Do they mean that in place of a simple tube, there's a piston, spring, etc. that will make the rifle (ever-so-slightly) front heavy? The closest and most comparable weapons I've seen so far are the Colt LE6940 and LE6940P. The piston gun weighs 1.6oz more... I guess the questions is: Is the weight issue blown out of proportion?

    2. Like I said, I don't want to drop a lot of coin. So I'm intending to begin with the Ruger SR-556 'Starter Kit'. One of the first things I plan on doing is sending the BCG and FCG off to be Ni-B coated. It makes sense to me and I'm not concerned about the cost. Anyone see any reason that I shouldn't do this?

    3. I'm figuring that this question will be better served in a specific Ruger SR forum. But does anyone know if the barrel, on that rifle, is AR standard and possibly interchangeable with, say, something fluted and match grade? The concern is the gas port. And you'd hope they conform their system. But you also know how manufacturers like to reinvent the wheel.

    4. I've read in more than a few of those debate threads that "...if Eugene Stoner wanted a piston in the AR, one would be in there." And usually that's the only thing they say. On one hand, I feel like they're just die-hards and would also have no problem saying, "If Eugene Stoner wanted the gas tube to blow hot gas into your eye, you should be blind." But on the other hand, I want to make sure that they're not onto something and that the design is simply as good as it's going to get.

    5. I've read that piston rifles aren't as accurate. My assumption is that the gas is hitting the piston and cycling the action long before the gas would hit the gas key in a DI rifle. If that's right, does that indicate a timing issue?

    Thanks.

    Mike
  • #2
    BrianRodela
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 607

    Mike, for the most part, you won't really notice any weight difference between the two to become a significant factor in your decision. I am a practical guy, so I tend to lean more toward using something where parts availability is a factor. Regarding that, the direct impingement system takes priority. For reliability, sure the piston system can allow you to assault a beach head in an inner coastal river system during a sandstorm after chiseling your way out of concrete and still fire a headshot! LOL! But in all seriousness, for the most part, the most these rifles will ever receive in the damage department is a few scratches between the truck to the bench and back.
    Regarding the change ability of the barrel, you will have to get with Ruger on this or even your local gunsmith to see if the front gas port is a standard .750". When it comes to accuracy, the only possible issue is the little added weight tends to change the barrel harmonics. Is it a game changer, I really don't think so when shooting a a torso sized target but high power shooters most likely won't be using it. Timing issue isn't the concern as the bolt still has to rotate before retracting from the breech and by that time, the bullet is long gone, good thought on the mechanics though.
    Hope this helps.

    Brian
    sigpic
    Genuine MMCS, Firefighter and father of two great kids!

    Comment

    • #3
      orlydose1
      Member
      • Feb 2011
      • 174

      is there any specific reason, technical or otherwise, why you would choose the ruger piston platform versus others in the same price range? (stag, s&w, sig, etc.)

      Comment

      • #4
        starsnuffer
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2011
        • 2212

        Buy a cheap AR like a M&P sport or something.

        When you're ready, put an HK556 upper on it.

        Enjoy.

        -W

        Comment

        • #5
          cfusionpm
          Veteran Member
          • Apr 2011
          • 2926

          I can't see your location on my phone, but I have a Ruger SR556E for sale here in San Diego. If you're local, you're welcome to check it out and put a few rounds down range with it. I'm at work for most of today, but feel free to PM me with any other specific questions. I'll try to get to all the posted questions on my lunch. Cheers.

          Comment

          • #6
            21SF
            Veteran Member
            • Oct 2010
            • 3497

            Have you ever shot a Direct impingement to failure?
            SA TRP Half rail, Glock 21SF, Spikes St-15, Ruger Alaskan .44, Saiga 7.62, GSSF Member
            Diablo Rod & Gun Club
            Originally posted by keenkeen
            "What you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

            Comment

            • #7
              Mossy Man
              Calguns Addict
              • Jun 2011
              • 7641

              the problem with the ruger model is that the quad rail is proprietary and you have to buy their rail sections

              if you're ok with this then i think it's a great rifle

              Comment

              • #8
                starsnuffer
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2011
                • 2212

                Originally posted by 21SF
                Have you ever shot a Direct impingement to failure?
                There are other reasons to shoot a piston besides reliability. No gas in the face is one. I'm not going to debate which is better or not, but don't knock someone's decisions just because they haven't broken something.

                For the record, I've never shot my replica kentucky long rifle to failure either, does that mean I should have never bought anything else?

                -W

                Comment

                • #9
                  21SF
                  Veteran Member
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 3497

                  Originally posted by starsnuffer
                  There are other reasons to shoot a piston besides reliability. No gas in the face is one. I'm not going to debate which is better or not, but don't knock someone's decisions just because they haven't broken something.

                  For the record, I've never shot my replica kentucky long rifle to failure either, does that mean I should have never bought anything else?

                  -W
                  I have never had gas in my face from shooting DI rifles.
                  SA TRP Half rail, Glock 21SF, Spikes St-15, Ruger Alaskan .44, Saiga 7.62, GSSF Member
                  Diablo Rod & Gun Club
                  Originally posted by keenkeen
                  "What you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Mossy Man
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Jun 2011
                    • 7641

                    Originally posted by 21SF
                    I have never had gas in my face from shooting DI rifles.
                    i was wondering about this one

                    now brass to the face....my glock's done that a few times

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      cwin
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2011
                      • 1438

                      There will also be pros and cons in the DI vs Piston debate. For me, I prefer DI because if it breaks down, replacement parts are readily available. Piston systems are proprietary and getting parts for them is a little more of a hassle. I have owned both and liked how it was easier, IMO, to clean my Piston rifle. Don't get too caught up in the debate though, I don't think you'd be unhappy going either way. Both are gods systems.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        21SF
                        Veteran Member
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 3497

                        That is the only thing they have going for it, cooler and cleaner. My NiB BCG and FCG cleans easily
                        SA TRP Half rail, Glock 21SF, Spikes St-15, Ruger Alaskan .44, Saiga 7.62, GSSF Member
                        Diablo Rod & Gun Club
                        Originally posted by keenkeen
                        "What you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          ChrisZ
                          Member
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 182

                          I think piston may be for you if you like to clean your gun a lot. I'm not saying piston gun does not get dirty, but it is a bit easier to get to the dirty parts on a piston gun.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            orlydose1
                            Member
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 174

                            Originally posted by cwin
                            Don't get too caught up in the debate though, I don't think you'd be unhappy going either way.
                            +1.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              integr8d
                              Junior Member
                              • Oct 2012
                              • 45

                              Originally posted by BrianRodela
                              Mike, for the most part, you won't really notice any weight difference between the two to become a significant factor in your decision. I am a practical guy, so I tend to lean more toward using something where parts availability is a factor. Regarding that, the direct impingement system takes priority. For reliability, sure the piston system can allow you to assault a beach head in an inner coastal river system during a sandstorm after chiseling your way out of concrete and still fire a headshot! LOL! But in all seriousness, for the most part, the most these rifles will ever receive in the damage department is a few scratches between the truck to the bench and back.
                              Regarding the change ability of the barrel, you will have to get with Ruger on this or even your local gunsmith to see if the front gas port is a standard .750". When it comes to accuracy, the only possible issue is the little added weight tends to change the barrel harmonics. Is it a game changer, I really don't think so when shooting a a torso sized target but high power shooters most likely won't be using it. Timing issue isn't the concern as the bolt still has to rotate before retracting from the breech and by that time, the bullet is long gone, good thought on the mechanics though.
                              Hope this helps.

                              Brian
                              Thanks, Brian! Harmonics. Wow. Never would've crossed my mind. That's at least a solid night of reading to get my head around... And the fact that there's enough (and I'm sure there's a scientific term for this) residual pressure to cycle the gun after the bullet is gone is astounding. One would think that the system had to remain pressurized to do all of that mechanical work. That blows my mind.

                              It's not so much about assaulting beaches for me as it's about how lazy a human being I am. I've read everywhere that internals require basic wipe-downs (which is why I want to start with that Ni-B coating; to make that process even easier) and that only the piston block/tube require effort. That sounds right up my alley.

                              In other words, there are a lot of guys out there that are a lot more serious about maintaining their guns than know I am. And a rifle that caters to my lack of seriousness would probably be ideal

                              Thanks, again!

                              Comment

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