KRISS System & California Legality

[NSR500]

Okay Guys... I did a search and tried to read through most of the KRISS threads that showed up here on Calguns.
Looking at the KRISS mechanics, I wanted to get your opinions on the validity of the KRISS as a California Legal Firearm in unaltered original form. If you look at the California Laws, they state that a AW is:

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle capable of accepting detachable magazines and any of:
▪ a pistol grip protruding conspicuously below the weapon’s action

▪ a thumbhole stock or folding or telescopic stock;

▪ a flash suppressor, grenade launcher or flare launcher;

▪ a forward pistol grip.

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with overall length of less than 30 inches;

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine holding over 10 rounds.

Here is a KRISS for reference:



Here is the KRISS Action:



Now that you have seen the KRISS action and how a user would sholder the weapon... Is that considered a Pistol Grip/Thumbhole/etc...?
If it is not a "Pistol Grip", then the KRISS would be in California compliance as long as there is no Flash Hider,no Collapsible/Foldiing Stock, no forward grip, and OAL is 30"+, Right??? My opinion is that the grip is above the actual action of the firearm.
Personally, while the looks have grown on me I'm still not a big fan. But, if it does take Glock mags, I have a lot of 33 rounders that I could use with it.

[NSR500]

the guy at accusport said they were working on a fixed mag desighn for the cali guys

Hypothetically speaking... If it is not considered an AW with the type of grip it has, we would not need to lock the mag. Unless of course, you want evil features and are willing to give up detaching the magazine.

[packnrat]

pistol grip = aw

but it is just fugly.

i would rather buy a svt 40,sks,ak, or a ljungman, hiakam, reshead, or most any mauser. thompson, grand, springfield (ww2 ver), ar. etc.





brass hounds rule


.

[aplinker]

That is definitely a pistol grip. What you quoted from the PC is insufficient to understand what a pistol grip is.

PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF
THE WEAPON” IS DEFINED BY 11 C.C.R. 5469(d).
11 C.C.R. 5469(d) expressly defines "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the
action of the weapon" for the purposes of Penal Code Section 12276.1:
The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant
to Penal Code section 12276.1:
(d) "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a
grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between
the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the
trigger while firing.

Because the web of the hand can only be beneath the top of the exposed portion of the trigger guard, that makes it a pistol grip. You could fill in the area between the PG and the stock. There's also the issue that the stock looks to be a folder, which is a feature, as well.

[uzigalil]

I think a better project is to get Bushmaster and Magpul to make a gripless lower for the Masada/ACR rifle. Then we can real rifle .

[sergeantrex]

Looks like the pistol grip is behind the action not beneath the action. Am I crazy?

[Paratus et Vigilans]

The demo of it on Futureweapons showed it to have a FA mode also. Even if you can make the argument about the PG being above the action, what do you do about the NFA issue? Even on the pic you posted, the board behind it says it's a SMG.

As for looks, well . . . I don't really care for any of the blocky, lots of plastic, raygun looking things the gun manufacturers are coming out with. I want a gun that looks like a danged gun, not like a phaser!

[NSR500]

To me the KRISS grip looks like it is above the action which nullifies C.C.R. 5469. Looking at the diagram, the magazine feed lips, barrel, and bolt are well below the trigger line.
The only area of dispute that I can see is the selector switch and part of the "Super V" system look like they are about the line.

[NSR500]

The demo of it on Futureweapons showed it to have a FA mode also. Even if you can make the argument about the PG being above the action, what do you do about the NFA issue? Even on the pic you posted, the board behind it says it's a SMG.

As for looks, well . . . I don't really care for any of the blocky, lots of plastic, raygun looking things the gun manufacturers are coming out with. I want a gun that looks like a danged gun, not like a phaser!

They are making a Civilian version of the firearm that is not Full Auto.

[uzigalil]

Of course they are, What military or LE is even interested ???

[bohoki]

anybody know when and where i could order one of them +17 bottoms

yes i have pre-ban 13 round mags and have had my glock 21 since the 90s
(so contrary to popular belief they don't all go kaboom within the first year)

[bohoki]

To me the KRISS grip looks like it is above the action which nullifies C.C.R. 5469. Looking at the diagram, the magazine feed lips, barrel, and bolt are well below the trigger line.
The only area of dispute that I can see is the selector switch and part of the "Super V" system look like they are about the line.

the trigger is the device you press with your index finger and it looks like you grasp it under the exposed upper section of it

of course if they could make it pinkie fired we might have something

[onley11]

They are already working on a non folding, bb'd version for cali sales. They said so at the shot show and it is on their website also. The +17's are supposedly gonna be ready any second per the booth at shot. But he said they are also dealing with glock to licence the design. I finger loved the mag more than the damn kriss at the show and it appears very much to be a longer version of the arridondo two piece glock mag extensions. I too have legal 13 rounders and the kriss guys say that the new mag works great. The booth guys must have been getting nervious because as soon as I put their 30 round glock 21 mag back on the felt one of them snagged it and put it away.

[saki302]

It may well be exempt based in the 1919A4 ruling- where the pistol grip is BEHIND the gun rather than below it.

On the Kriss, the PG appears to not portrude below the action at all, since thw weird cantilever action requires an oddly long downward bolt travel.

It's interesting, but doesnt really do anything a GLock 21 wouldn;t do already. Might be fun to shoot though..

-Dave

[aplinker]

It may well be exempt based in the 1919A4 ruling- where the pistol grip is BEHIND the gun rather than below it.

I'm pretty sure the 1919 is exempt because it's not a rifle, not because the PG is behind it.



This gun makes no sense to me, unless you can use FA. That's definitely a PG.