Penal code

[cr250chevy]

I was reading the penal code section on assault weapons. It has a list of names of models in which they banned, however it also has the term "series" still in it and it's interpretation... The interpretation states that a "series" is a like weapon regardless of minor differences and manufacture. This is what an officer would use when looking into the legality of my RRA LAR 15, and under this section it would be illegal... What is your guy's thoughts?

[-hanko]

I was reading the penal code section on assault weapons. It has a list of names of models in which they banned, however it also has the term "series" still in it and it's interpretation... The interpretation states that a "series" is a like weapon regardless of minor differences and manufacture. This is what an officer would use when looking into the legality of my RRA LAR 15, and under this section it would be illegal... What is your guy's thoughts?

It's much different now. Search, read.

-hanko

[hoffmang]

You should read Harrot v. County of Kings. A decent copy is here:

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Harrot-v-County_of_Kings.pdf

-Gene

[cr250chevy]

I have done research for weeks and weeks now. The problem is not case law, it is in the Penal code. READ THE PENAL CODE and you will see what I am talking about.
12276
(5) Colt AR-15 series

(e) the term "series" includes all other models that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in subdivision (a), regarless of the manufacturer.

While case law and Harrot has changed this, the law that officers use states that all ar-15 type weapons are illegal. Even the DOJ's assault weapons identification packet states this, but there is no reference to Harrot v. county of kings in the packet...

[-hanko]

This is what an officer would use when looking into the legality of my RRA LAR 15, and under this section it would be illegal... What is your guy's thoughts?

IF it were illegal, how were you allowed to obtain it?? It's not illegal if modified to CA requirements.

BTW, thanks for researching the issue before you posted...reading the law let's you understand it a LOT better than getting a quick answer on the www.

-hanko

[SemiAutoSam]

Think of it this way.

If the FFL's that deal in Off List lower receivers were doing anything illegal don't you think Iggy and crew would arrest them for breaking the law ?

[Librarian]

I have done research for weeks and weeks now. The problem is not case law, it is in the Penal code. READ THE PENAL CODE and you will see what I am talking about.
12276
(5) Colt AR-15 series

(e) the term "series" includes all other models that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in subdivision (a), regarless of the manufacturer.

While case law and Harrot has changed this, the law that officers use states that all ar-15 type weapons are illegal. Even the DOJ's assault weapons identification packet states this, but there is no reference to Harrot v. county of kings in the packet...

You have identified an officer-education problem, caused primarily by CAL-DOJ dragging its collective feet.

Harrot case-law modifies black-letter Penal Code; but the place to argue that is in court.

Not being a lawyer, I can't suggest what would happen, but what should happen is

1. officer makes arrest for 'series' weapon
2. DA reads Penal Code
3. DA reads Harrot
4. DA dismisses case
5. officer is retrained.

I'm sure you would also see

• arrestee spends $$ to defend against charges
• DA tries to intimidate arrestee
• DA tries to get arrestee to surrender weapon in exchange for dropping case

since we have a very similar case, well reported here at Calguns.

[Jax]

Here is the deal.. The DOJ wanted the PC to include every make model of AR15 (ak also) on the market, but found out that would be impossible...so they quickly tossed in that line and thought..."cool now every gun that even looks like and AR15 or can be described as an AR15 is illegal".. And thought they would just be allowed to keep adding to the law as if it was their personal memo board....guess what...the law doesnt work that way.

In a nutshell they were told..."No". You can't just willy-nilly add to the law, nor can you say any weapon that looks like example A is illegal.

Thats how we have OLLs now.

[bigthaiboy]

If selling, building and possessing OLL AR-15s were illegal, we would have seen massive numbers of raids on homes and on FFLs, and large numbers of seizures would have been made, and there would have been large numbers of prosecutions. This is not the reality of the situation.

[hoffmang]

Chevy,

The Penal Code is wrong and the AW guide is an illegal underground regulation. Sucks to be a gun owner in California sometimes, but these issues aren't the place to spend a lot of time. Unlisted receivers are not AW's per Harrot and that's what matters.

-Gene

[jacques]

If selling, building and possessing OLL AR-15s were illegal, we would have seen massive numbers of raids on homes and on FFLs, and large numbers of seizures would have been made, and there would have been large numbers of prosecutions. This is not the reality of the situation.

I could just see it on the news, "Tonight, 10,000 Californians were arrested in a series of................................"

[cr250chevy]

The issue in my eyes is not the legality at all. The issue here is what if you don't have the money to go to court over it? The reason I bring this up is that Harrot should of had an impact on written law, It feels as if whole law is not being represented in both the penal code and the CCR's like they should be. I feel this is illegal on the government's part and there should be actions taken to clarify the entire situation. The government needs to either get it right or allow us to posses any weapon we want! personally I prefer the second, but not going to happen.
I am in a field of bull chit!!!

[adamsreeftank]

The issue in my eyes is not the legality at all. The issue here is what if you don't have the money to go to court over it? The reason I bring this up is that Harrot should of had an impact on written law, It feels as if whole law is not being represented in both the penal code and the CCR's like they should be. I feel this is illegal on the government's part and there should be actions taken to clarify the entire situation. The government needs to either get it right or allow us to posses any weapon we want! personally I prefer the second, but not going to happen.
I am in a field of bull chit!!!

Maybe you should write the DOJ and suggest they update the AW ID chart or publish a memo. You could also CC the Attorney General and the Governor.

Of course, there are probably more productive ways to spend your time, but it couldn't hurt.

[BlackReef]

Interesting. I meant to ask this same question because my brother who is in Police Academy right now has a AW Identification guide. It says "All AR or AK Series rifles" or something to that affect. How the heck can they say this if it is not the law? Regardless if its right or wrong, it is in the LEO AW ID Guide and that means trouble for us

EDIT: Just reading the Harrot vs King. So does "AK and AR series" refer to Kasler listed rifles? EDIT again: Nevermind, "regardless of manufacturer it says" man Im confused

[hoffmang]

chevy,

You're being naive. A court case that overrules the actual code only leads to modification of the code in question about half the time.

There are quite a few laws that say X which have been adjudicated to mean "not really X" while the laws themselves have remained on the books.

Go look at the scraps of Federal Law that have survived the Federal AW ban's sunset as a good example.

-Gene