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**I'm guessing this has been suggested before. Pretty much everything has been hashed here, but maybe not. I'll take you through my thought process. If you don't care about reading, just skip ahead to the mock-up pic at the bottom. I'd suggest reading the colored parts along with the pic as 1it will explain my basic reasons why.**
__________________________________________________ ______________________
How it started:
I was laying in bed, not able to sleep, at all, last night... I was holding my MMG equipped AR (it's good at cuddling). Anyways, I was thinking about the properties of it I dislike...
Let me preface this with the fact I love the MMG. It's a very cheap (the price of a regular nice PG) means of making a drop-magazine AR-style rifle. It's downright awesome. This is not a bashing of the MMG, but rather a suggestion of my inspiration.
Here are the things I was thinking... First, the reach is a little off. Where I try to hold it doesn't really work. I'd like to have my middle finger directly under the trigger guard, however I end up rubbing my fingers across the trigger guard wings in front of the PG. This doesn't feel good, at all. A filler would help, but it's still not ideal. Also, the grip either starts too far back or is too deeply angled to allow a good hold in this position. I could see how I could want there to be something to grasp more under the trigger guard. I thought about a "nub" like the A2 grip. This would help.
Second, you can't use all shapes of stocks, such as skeletonized, non-collapsible M4s, etc.
Third, and most important, you can't wrap your thumb. Duh, this is obvious, I know, but this is a severe limitation. It limits one handed control of the rifle. This makes things like reloads and slide racking more difficult.
I thought about the Blackstar rifle. I think this is an awesome idea, but at this point its a ways off still and, also, it doesn't allow the use of standard buttstocks.
So this lead me to thinking about the definition of a pistol grip:
So I started fiddling with a lower and an A2 grip, imagining a bracket or mounting device.
The Desired Design Parameters:
My criteria were I wanted to design something that:
1.) allows a wrap-around hold
2.) Allows the use of any standard pistol grip of the users choice
3.) Allows the use of any buttstocks of the users choice (non-collapsible, of course)
4.) (obviously) Doesn't fit the definition of a pistol grip as shown above.
After messing around with grip angle and looking at the trigger location I realized it would need to be moved. (( I'll get back to how to accomplish this in a moment. There are issues, I think, involved in this part, but I think they're solvable. It will take me some machining time and twiddling.))
The Implementation:
I realized if I could build a bracket attachment that does the following:
1.) allows attachment of a pistol grip mounting at a slightly more angled shape.
2.) covered the sides of the trigger area and then attack a "rod" to the trigger to extend it
3.) creates a new "trigger guard" are in front of where the new pistol grip attaches.
This is what I came up with. The only piece of black heavier paper I could find was the cover of a Ghirardelli chocolate bar, hence the name of the project. I apologize about the camera phone pics. I left my camera at work.
I give you "Project Ghirardelli"
The idea is to create a plastic or aluminum bracket that bolts into the PG hole. It would be smoothed and rounded to flush fit with the receiver and also to allow an even transition between the receiver/PG to prevent any ugly edges for your hand. Then you add the PG of your choice and the trigger attachment.
Here's the "line drawings" of approved grips. I do recognize that the grip drops below the line in the back. This might be an issue, but of course you could adjust the angle as needed.
Here are the main issues/downsides:
1.) The length of trigger pull would, of course, be increased
2.) simply adding a rod to the trigger, unless extremely light, could prove a safety issue.
Here are the possible work-arounds. I don't know whose done anything like this, so these are my thoughts.
1.) easiest trigger extension would be a rod attached to the trigger.
2.) install another "trigger" with trigger pin in new trigger area that has a long rod that, as you squeeze, pushes up onto the back of the real trigger to trip the sear. A set screw could adjust for length of the rod to push against the back of the trigger. This is more effort to design, but would likely function quite well. Here's the schematic:
So, there's my idea. I think it has some distinct advantages in the use of regular parts and a standard pistol grasp.
One more thing. It doesn't fit the definition of a thumbhole stock, either, as this is a grip and not a part of the stock.
Ideas? Dislikes? Likes? Comments? Would you use it if it were available?
***New "PHOTOSHOPPED" Schematic***
__________________________________________________ ______________________
How it started:
I was laying in bed, not able to sleep, at all, last night... I was holding my MMG equipped AR (it's good at cuddling). Anyways, I was thinking about the properties of it I dislike...
Let me preface this with the fact I love the MMG. It's a very cheap (the price of a regular nice PG) means of making a drop-magazine AR-style rifle. It's downright awesome. This is not a bashing of the MMG, but rather a suggestion of my inspiration.
Here are the things I was thinking... First, the reach is a little off. Where I try to hold it doesn't really work. I'd like to have my middle finger directly under the trigger guard, however I end up rubbing my fingers across the trigger guard wings in front of the PG. This doesn't feel good, at all. A filler would help, but it's still not ideal. Also, the grip either starts too far back or is too deeply angled to allow a good hold in this position. I could see how I could want there to be something to grasp more under the trigger guard. I thought about a "nub" like the A2 grip. This would help.
Second, you can't use all shapes of stocks, such as skeletonized, non-collapsible M4s, etc.
Third, and most important, you can't wrap your thumb. Duh, this is obvious, I know, but this is a severe limitation. It limits one handed control of the rifle. This makes things like reloads and slide racking more difficult.
I thought about the Blackstar rifle. I think this is an awesome idea, but at this point its a ways off still and, also, it doesn't allow the use of standard buttstocks.
So this lead me to thinking about the definition of a pistol grip:
PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF
THE WEAPON” IS DEFINED BY 11 C.C.R. 5469(d).
11 C.C.R. 5469(d) expressly defines "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the
action of the weapon" for the purposes of Penal Code Section 12276.1:
The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant
to Penal Code section 12276.1:
(d) "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a
grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between
the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the
trigger while firing.
THE WEAPON” IS DEFINED BY 11 C.C.R. 5469(d).
11 C.C.R. 5469(d) expressly defines "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the
action of the weapon" for the purposes of Penal Code Section 12276.1:
The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant
to Penal Code section 12276.1:
(d) "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a
grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between
the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the
trigger while firing.
The Desired Design Parameters:
My criteria were I wanted to design something that:
1.) allows a wrap-around hold
2.) Allows the use of any standard pistol grip of the users choice
3.) Allows the use of any buttstocks of the users choice (non-collapsible, of course)
4.) (obviously) Doesn't fit the definition of a pistol grip as shown above.
After messing around with grip angle and looking at the trigger location I realized it would need to be moved. (( I'll get back to how to accomplish this in a moment. There are issues, I think, involved in this part, but I think they're solvable. It will take me some machining time and twiddling.))
The Implementation:
I realized if I could build a bracket attachment that does the following:
1.) allows attachment of a pistol grip mounting at a slightly more angled shape.
2.) covered the sides of the trigger area and then attack a "rod" to the trigger to extend it
3.) creates a new "trigger guard" are in front of where the new pistol grip attaches.
This is what I came up with. The only piece of black heavier paper I could find was the cover of a Ghirardelli chocolate bar, hence the name of the project. I apologize about the camera phone pics. I left my camera at work.
I give you "Project Ghirardelli"
The idea is to create a plastic or aluminum bracket that bolts into the PG hole. It would be smoothed and rounded to flush fit with the receiver and also to allow an even transition between the receiver/PG to prevent any ugly edges for your hand. Then you add the PG of your choice and the trigger attachment.
Here's the "line drawings" of approved grips. I do recognize that the grip drops below the line in the back. This might be an issue, but of course you could adjust the angle as needed.
Here are the main issues/downsides:
1.) The length of trigger pull would, of course, be increased
2.) simply adding a rod to the trigger, unless extremely light, could prove a safety issue.
Here are the possible work-arounds. I don't know whose done anything like this, so these are my thoughts.
1.) easiest trigger extension would be a rod attached to the trigger.
2.) install another "trigger" with trigger pin in new trigger area that has a long rod that, as you squeeze, pushes up onto the back of the real trigger to trip the sear. A set screw could adjust for length of the rod to push against the back of the trigger. This is more effort to design, but would likely function quite well. Here's the schematic:
So, there's my idea. I think it has some distinct advantages in the use of regular parts and a standard pistol grasp.
One more thing. It doesn't fit the definition of a thumbhole stock, either, as this is a grip and not a part of the stock.
(e) “thumbhole stock” means a stock with a hole that allows the thumb of the
trigger hand to penetrate into or through the stock while firing.
trigger hand to penetrate into or through the stock while firing.
***New "PHOTOSHOPPED" Schematic***
) so maybe try some more convincing and I will come around.
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