CA legal M-4's???!!!!

[tenpercentfirearms]

I made this page to help.

http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=page_8

You can also e-mail me your questions or keep asking here. If you within driving distance of Bakersfield, I can definitely take care of you.

[Turbinator]

M4 = M16 based weapon, either with select fire 3 rounds burst or full-auto.... depending on A#.... they are MACHINE GUNS.... not something you can *easily* get here in CA. I don't believe that Stag called theirs M4s.... Furthermore, a M4 is with a thread 14.5" barrel, a highly illegal item here in CA!! (unless u do a 14.5" barrel and PERMANTLY installed a 1.5"+ muzzle device....)

Relax, big guy. He said "M-4 *type*" rifle. A lot of people call their rifles M4geries. Nothing wrong with that.

If he said "I saw an M4 today!" ...then I'd agree that's a bit off and misleading.

Turby

[ap3572001]

Sorry for the confusion . The reason I kept calling it an M-4 is because at work we use M-4 ( the select fire type) and 16.5" AR Rifles . I just never bothered buying one before the ban. (Have plenty of mini -14's and M1-a both with factory high caps.) I don't want to buy one on a letterhead. Just want to get one as a civilian. By the way ,many if not most LE M-4's have a 1/7 twist . I like 1/9.

[Jicko]

Why do you like 1/9 better? For most ammo, 1/7 shoot fine and shoot well.

But then.... 1/9 would be the same too, unless you are shooting 75 or 77gr.

[ap3572001]

You see. I like the AR system for target shooting. Even if I decide to bring my gun from work to the range and shoot it of the bench, as far as accuracy it won't be much fun. I like 1/9 because You can use wide range of bullets ACCURATELY. I also want my own AR gun for fun. For anything else ( gun forbid I will have to use a rifle to defend myself with off duty) My mini-14's and M1-A's with 20 and 30 rd mags would do just fine.

[ap3572001]

If I was to buy an ASSEMBLED Rifle (I build mine, see above post) I would probably go with a Stag

https://www.stagarms.com

EDIT: You can save alot of money by building

I saw Stag. How many different "CA Legal" Manufacturers are there? Does Colt make Ca legal guns? Another confusing thing is that I found a website that sells different mag release buttons that make guns Ca legal (????) . This whole thing is becoming confusing.

[nikonuser]

You can order complete STAG CA legal from Chris at LANWORLDINC.COM.

[SunriseF150]

....This whole thing is becoming confusing.

Welcome to Calguns. Yes it can be very confusing at first. I know I was confused. But the more you read the more you understand.

There are a few different types of Bullet/Tool release mag lock devices:
Prince50 Bullet Button 1 (BBI) - BBI
Prince50Bullet Button II (BBII) - BBII
Metroshot Ultra SS Maglock - Ultra SS Lock
SemiAutoSam MAG-LOCK - SAS MAG-LOCK
Prince50 MAG - P50 Mag Lock
Anyone know of any else?

The top 3 allow you to release the mag via a tool or bullet tip. The SAS lock locks the mag in. you can unscrew the nut to remove the mag and insert another. The mag will not stay in unless you screw the nut back down (there is no spring used in this kit). Or you can just top load it. The P50 lock uses an allen screw to not allow the button to be pressed in. This kit still uses the spring, so if you go out of state and unscrew the allen screw a few turns it allows you to push the button in to release the mag, and insert a new one that will automatically lock in place cause the spring loaded latch.

[Xenophanes]

CA DOJ:

states the following on the web

Enforcement relative to the illegal possession of SB 23 assault weapons went into effect January 1, 2001, following the one-year registration period.

Persons who lawfully possessed assault weapons as defined by SB 23 prior to January 1, 2000 were required to either 1) register them with the Department of Justice between January 1, 2000 and December 31, 2000, 2) render them permanently inoperable, 3) remove them from California, 4) relinquish them to a police or sheriff's department, or 5) prior to December 31, 2000, sell them to a California licensed firearms dealer who possesses a valid assault weapon dealer permit. The Bureau of Firearms has made available a list of the SB 23 characteristics that define assault weapons. You may also visit the California Legislature website at www.leginfo.ca.gov/bilinfo.html for a full text version of SB 23, or telephone the Legislative Bill Room at (916) 445-2323 to request a copy of the bill. After reviewing the law, if you are still uncertain as to whether your firearm is an assault weapon under Penal Code section 12276.1 (SB 23), you should seek advice from either a firearms expert or an attorney.

Now, if the local district attorney asks if your weapon is registered, what will you tell him/her?
If you profess your gun to be legal and not registered, you my friend are in dubious legal territory. You have got to ask yourself if owning such a weapon with a bullet button is merely an OLL or a "pig with lipstick".

[tophatjones]

Now, if the local district attorney asks if your weapon is registered, what will you tell him/her?
If you profess your gun to be legal and not registered, you my friend are in dubious legal territory. You have got to ask yourself if owning such a weapon with a bullet button is merely an OLL or a "pig with lipstick".

My weapon is not registered because it does not need to be. It is not listed on the Roberti Roos list, it is not on the Ar/Ak series list provided by the DOJ (the Kasler association is nullified through Harrott vs Kings County, subsequently Ars and Aks must be listed by make and model), and it does not violate SB23 because it is a fixed magazine semi automatic centerfire rifle with a 10 round capacity.

This is exactly the kind of scare tactic the DOJ uses to discourage legal firearms configurations. We are not violating the spirit of the law, nor are we dressing a pig. We are law abiding citizens that are forced to wade through murky definitions of legislature, which our own firearms executive branch refuses to clear for us. Why are you on this board spreading paranoia to new members? Until we have a precedent setting case that determines the BB conflicts with law, speculation can only cause harm.

[J_Rock]

You see. I like the AR system for target shooting. Even if I decide to bring my gun from work to the range and shoot it of the bench, as far as accuracy it won't be much fun. I like 1/9 because You can use wide range of bullets ACCURATELY. I also want my own AR gun for fun. For anything else ( gun forbid I will have to use a rifle to defend myself with off duty) My mini-14's and M1-A's with 20 and 30 rd mags would do just fine.

The most accurate .223 cartridges fall into the 69-77gr range. If you want accurate you'll want to shoot the heavy match rounds out of the 1:7 twist.

[high_revs]

You can either:

You can have ZERO Evil features and have a detachable magazine. It is also legal to use hi-capacity magazines with this configuration as long as they were legally acquired before 2000.

Thanks for clearing this out Kingsnake. I noticed in a lot of threads that mention hi-cap is that for a featureless OLL to use them, the said user must've acquired them legally prior to 2000. I think many forget this little piece of info when they start talking 10-rd vs. hi-cap on feature-full vs. feature-less OLL.

is it an assumption that most already have them? or those that are inquring?

Is that on the FAQ? Should it be? I wonder if it should be matrixed out so people understand what magazine they can use.

before someone else asks (though I think it's been asked before), how does one go about in proving s/he legally acquired hi-cap mags prior to 2000? does it normally go hand-in-hand with owning a AW and registering it? meaning, you can't have a hi-cap mag if you never had a AW.

[Josh3239]

You don't need to prove if you owned them, if you owned them then you owned them. End of story. I think what you are asking is in a court of law who needs to prove innocence? If that is so, you don't need to prove squat. The prosecution must prove beyond reasonable doubt that you are guilty. Which would be difficult to do unless you have a receipt lying around or have hi caps for a gun that was created after 2000.

Since hi-caps were available before the ban, yes they are most likely used in a registered AW but the only thing registered is the receiver.

You could certainly have a hi-cap and no AW. Maybe the person was given or bought a hi cap before they could buy an AW or chose not to purchase and register an AW. Maybe the person sold his AW and had left over hi caps.