Best AR-15 for beginners?

[KandyRedCoi]

to OP, theres nothing wrong with shooting a .22lr

you mentioned that you will be shooting at 50-100yds which considering ammo cost the .223 wont be a good choice

.22lr is cheaper as far as ammo and price of firearm
.22lr rifle would be lighter than a .223/5.56 model

my suggestion would be to buy a complete lower (nfa polymer) and a dedicated .22lr upper (cmmg) and magazines (blackdog machine) to start off

when u find the need to switch to centerfire, all you have to do is buy a complete upper you want in .223/5.56

[1forall]

they look really cool.. carbine or mid length?? low recoil??

The 5.56/.223 recoil isn't bad at all, my wife loves and handles it well. Her only complaint was with the weight of my Stag 2T which was a bit front heavy partially due to the quad rail it came with. I changed it out for a lighter Magpul MOE handguard and now it's perfect for her. I currently have both carbine and mid length ARs and my preference has nothing to do with gas length. I mainly like my mid lenth AR because of it's 14.5" barrel and the 12" DD Lite rail. I hope that helps and good luck on your future purchase

[IPSICK]

I hope you at least consider building your own lower. Once you see how simple it is, it should reduce most of your perceptions of how complex the ar platform is.

As for recoil, it's really not much for any length gas system but tends to be a less snappier impulse the longer the gas system.

Btw, converting to .22 using a conversion kit doesn't require any more expertise than what you would need to maintain and clean your ar.

[1fgmtnbyker]

Some of you guys are missing the point here. She is a women looking for a AR-15. That's pretty cool!

[high_revs]

Smurfette,
i might go against the grain on this one. with the exception of Noveske Reece and the SPR-like model, i put together all my AR15s lowers and bought a complete upper. my cheapest build in 2008/2007 prices is probably around your target price range. the build consists of a stag lower, magpul CTR stock (not really around anymore i think but you can find equivalent) and a CMMG upper with a 14.5" barrel and a permanently affixed flash hider.

i don't have any issues with it compared to my higher end model Noveskes. i don't think you need to go even over 1k for a starter AR. you keep it maintained (lubed) clean it now and then you shouldn't have issues. i've shot some of my ar's up to 400rds w/o cleaning and no issues on bulk ammo from sportsman guide. i just lube it (not soaking wet though)

that said, these are the features i'd look for if i was getting an AR for my SO.
- weight. light weight as much as possible
- collapsible/adjustable stock
- mid-length gas, 16" light barrel
- rail on upper for a scope
- folding rear iron sight and a A2 fixed front iron sight (just for durability).
- m4 feed ramps if possible at that price
- lower receiver has a forward assist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_assist)
- 1/8 or 1/7 twist (i have 1/8 twists rifles no issues there even shooting heavier bullets)
- traditional round handguards like on the s&w mp15. full rails aren't very friendly to bare hands sometimes w/o gloves if shooting off-bench.
- either a traditional scope or a very light weight holographic scope. these do add weight. you can start shooting with only iron sights and a lot of folks will recommend you work your skills there first before plunking with scope/holographic sights (like an eotech xp2)

with the exception of last bullet, i'd look for something with those in the 650-800 range.

picture of a fixed front site

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu116/SouthPawsPics/Arfcom/SPS-A2-2.jpg

pictures of folding sights front and rear

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v74/goldenset/oll/?action=view&current=DSC_3010.jpg

one other thing to consider is how long you want the rail. do you want it only on the upper receiver? or longer down the barrel. for ex, in the ink above, the rail extends out past the upper receiver. but in the picture link below, it's only on the upper receiver. the challenge? i could not put a rear site and put my eotech holographic sight at the same time. i had to get another gadget (dominator eotech mount from rock river arms) to be able to have a rear sight and use my holographic sight. my point is i didn't have enough rail space for both because my eotech was long, hence another attachment to have both. but if the eotech xp2 was available, i would've been able to have both w/o another $200 add-on.

the s&w m&P15 is a good starter in the price range you're looking at. go with a 5.56 or a 2.23 with a wylde chamber. but if look strictly for a 5.56 chamber, you won't have to worry about shooting .223 ammo in it. (just do a google search here about 5.56 vs. 2.23).

hope that helps a little.

p.s. so you shoot trap @ lake merced?

[high_revs]

i forgot to say.. if you buy a complete rifle out of state (like buds, ddsranch), make sure it's cali compliant (bullet button) if you're getting a centerfire (5.56/2.23 wylde chamber). most likely they won't ship it to cali w/o a bullet button though for some of my stuff, they shipped the lower/upper separately and it was *my* responsibility to make it complaint (install bullet button).

don't forgot to read up on the laws on center fire rifles. so if you buy locally/in-state, should not be an issue.

p.s. ddsranch has the s&w 15 for the price you have. has bullet button and 10-rd mag. rifle gear has it too (rifle gear is in-state). i like and have bought from both vendors multiple times on long guns.

[Akers]

If you are looking to build, although you said you haven't done it...don't be intimidated.

Palmetto State Amory often sells their lowers for $49.99 on special occasions.
$105 for a standard lower build kit http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...build-kit.html

And they sell their uppers pretty cheap during "M4 Madness" http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ng-handle.html

add another 100 for a BCG and your good to go.

That is $600 for a good plinker.

I wouldn't be intimidated by building.

[smurfette]

A bit, here is a pic of 223 and 22 LR.



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Thanks!

to OP, theres nothing wrong with shooting a .22lr

you mentioned that you will be shooting at 50-100yds which considering ammo cost the .223 wont be a good choice

.22lr is cheaper as far as ammo and price of firearm
.22lr rifle would be lighter than a .223/5.56 model

my suggestion would be to buy a complete lower (nfa polymer) and a dedicated .22lr upper (cmmg) and magazines (blackdog machine) to start off

when u find the need to switch to centerfire, all you have to do is buy a complete upper you want in .223/5.56

.223s are a lot more expensive? I haven't checked the price for ammos yet haha

The 5.56/.223 recoil isn't bad at all, my wife loves and handles it well. Her only complaint was with the weight of my Stag 2T which was a bit front heavy partially due to the quad rail it came with. I changed it out for a lighter Magpul MOE handguard and now it's perfect for her. I currently have both carbine and mid length ARs and my preference has nothing to do with gas length. I mainly like my mid lenth AR because of it's 14.5" barrel and the 12" DD Lite rail. I hope that helps and good luck on your future purchase

I think the S&W MP 15 22 still has the magpul stock and sight.. will look into it.. thanks!

I hope you at least consider building your own lower. Once you see how simple it is, it should reduce most of your perceptions of how complex the ar platform is.

As for recoil, it's really not much for any length gas system but tends to be a less snappier impulse the longer the gas system.

Btw, converting to .22 using a conversion kit doesn't require any more expertise than what you would need to maintain and clean your ar.

I don't think i will build one or convert one yet.. just wanna get one to play it and see if i will like it haha.. will get a better one after

Some of you guys are missing the point here. She is a women looking for a AR-15. That's pretty cool!

I think a lot of women shoot Ar-15s lol

Smurfette,
i might go against the grain on this one. with the exception of Noveske Reece and the SPR-like model, i put together all my AR15s lowers and bought a complete upper. my cheapest build in 2008/2007 prices is probably around your target price range. the build consists of a stag lower, magpul CTR stock (not really around anymore i think but you can find equivalent) and a CMMG upper with a 14.5" barrel and a permanently affixed flash hider.

i don't have any issues with it compared to my higher end model Noveskes. i don't think you need to go even over 1k for a starter AR. you keep it maintained (lubed) clean it now and then you shouldn't have issues. i've shot some of my ar's up to 400rds w/o cleaning and no issues on bulk ammo from sportsman guide. i just lube it (not soaking wet though)

that said, these are the features i'd look for if i was getting an AR for my SO.
- weight. light weight as much as possible
- collapsible/adjustable stock
- mid-length gas, 16" light barrel
- rail on upper for a scope
- folding rear iron sight and a A2 fixed front iron sight (just for durability).
- m4 feed ramps if possible at that price
- lower receiver has a forward assist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_assist)
- 1/8 or 1/7 twist (i have 1/8 twists rifles no issues there even shooting heavier bullets)
- traditional round handguards like on the s&w mp15. full rails aren't very friendly to bare hands sometimes w/o gloves if shooting off-bench.
- either a traditional scope or a very light weight holographic scope. these do add weight. you can start shooting with only iron sights and a lot of folks will recommend you work your skills there first before plunking with scope/holographic sights (like an eotech xp2)

with the exception of last bullet, i'd look for something with those in the 650-800 range.

picture of a fixed front site

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu116/SouthPawsPics/Arfcom/SPS-A2-2.jpg

pictures of folding sights front and rear

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v74/goldenset/oll/?action=view&current=DSC_3010.jpg

one other thing to consider is how long you want the rail. do you want it only on the upper receiver? or longer down the barrel. for ex, in the ink above, the rail extends out past the upper receiver. but in the picture link below, it's only on the upper receiver. the challenge? i could not put a rear site and put my eotech holographic sight at the same time. i had to get another gadget (dominator eotech mount from rock river arms) to be able to have a rear sight and use my holographic sight. my point is i didn't have enough rail space for both because my eotech was long, hence another attachment to have both. but if the eotech xp2 was available, i would've been able to have both w/o another $200 add-on.

the s&w m&P15 is a good starter in the price range you're looking at. go with a 5.56 or a 2.23 with a wylde chamber. but if look strictly for a 5.56 chamber, you won't have to worry about shooting .223 ammo in it. (just do a google search here about 5.56 vs. 2.23).

hope that helps a little.

p.s. so you shoot trap @ lake merced?

a lot of info.. will read it during lunch break.. haha

I have, but I prefer shooting in Los Altos more.. not good enough to shoot skeet yet.. still doing manual trap.. going to move to 5-stand trap soon

If you are looking to build, although you said you haven't done it...don't be intimidated.

Palmetto State Amory often sells their lowers for $49.99 on special occasions.
$105 for a standard lower build kit http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...build-kit.html

And they sell their uppers pretty cheap during "M4 Madness" http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ng-handle.html

add another 100 for a BCG and your good to go.

That is $600 for a good plinker.

I wouldn't be intimidated by building.

I dont' think I will want to build one yet.. I will on the next one. hehe

[IPSICK]

.223/5.56 ammo is quite a bit more expensive than .22lr and converting a 5.56/.223 to .22lr AR with the CMMG kit is as easy as removing and replacing the bolt carrier group in your AR (this is part of routine maintenance) and using the .22lr specific magazine.

If you're not planning on building any part of your AR at all, then the S&W M&P-15 Sport is a good bet. To save on practice ammo costs, take a good look at that CMMG .22lr kit. Also you can surely go from .223/5.56 to .22lr with conversion kit with the M&P15, but I believe that you can't go from .22lr to .223/5.56 if you start with an M&P15-22. There are some mechanical obstacles that prevent this as far as I know. I realize this is largely a plinking gun but I usually like to purchase guns that fill more roles than less until I can purchase more dedicated setups later.

However, another incentive to build your own lower is to avoid the 12.5% Federal Excise Tax. If you buy the lower separately from the rest of the AR you only pay the 12.5% on the lower. You could also buy a complete assembled lower at a local gun shop separately from a complete upper bought online and save that way also. From there assembling your AR will just involve hand manipulated pins to assemble your AR.

[smurfette]

.223/5.56 ammo is quite a bit more expensive than .22lr and converting a 5.56/.223 to .22lr AR with the CMMG kit is as easy as removing and replacing the bolt carrier group in your AR (this is part of routine maintenance) and using the .22lr specific magazine.

If you're not planning on building any part of your AR at all, then the S&W M&P-15 Sport is a good bet. To save on practice ammo costs, take a good look at that CMMG .22lr kit. Also you can surely go from .223/5.56 to .22lr with conversion kit with the M&P15, but I believe that you can't go from .22lr to .223/5.56 if you start with an M&P15-22. There are some mechanical obstacles that prevent this as far as I know. I realize this is largely a plinking gun but I usually like to purchase guns that fill more roles than less until I can purchase more dedicated setups later.

However, another incentive to build your own lower is to avoid the 12.5% Federal Excise Tax. If you buy the lower separately from the rest of the AR you only pay the 12.5% on the lower. You could also buy a complete assembled lower at a local gun shop separately from a complete upper bought online and save that way also. From there assembling your AR will just involve hand manipulated pins to assemble your AR.

if I use the kit to change it to .22. can I change it back to .223?
is it easy to change back and forth?

[smurfette]

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786043_-1_772659_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

can I convert this to .22? is the conversion reversible?

[gixxnrocket]

Turners has the M&P sport on sale again this week, if you decide you have no need for the forward assist or dust cover.
Another option is to watch the private sales here on calguns. My FTF experience with CG members has been great. Plus your not going to pay CA sales tax.

[smurfette]

Turners has the M&P sport on sale again this week, if you decide you have no need for the forward assist or dust cover.
Another option is to watch the private sales here on calguns. My FTF experience with CG members has been great. Plus your not going to pay CA sales tax.

which turner? can't find the thread.. post the link here please, thanks!

[em9sredbeam]

Just to toss it out there, guys don't flame me too bad, but you can buy a 22 such as a ruger 10/22 for much less than the m&p 22 and while it may not be as tacticool, it is still fun to shoot and cheap. In my opinion, if you are going to spend money on an AR, it should be a .223/5.56. You will not have a problem with the recoil, just make sure you check out the weight of the gun before you buy it.

[IPSICK]

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_Y

can I convert this to .22? is the conversion reversible?

Yes!

if I use the kit to change it to .22. can I change it back to .223?
is it easy to change back and forth?

Yes you can go from 5.56/.223 to .22 and back to 5.56/.223 and cycle between the setups as often as you like.

Yes it is very easy to change back and forth.



I guess video always helps.

And another one.