galil kit

[Lateralus]

was browsing around ORF today and noticed this:

http://rapidfire.targetweb.net/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi/agora.cgi?cart_id=4205874.6269*Uo7md1&p_id=02172&xm=on&ppinc=big

info:
Here is what you get. 1 Century Galil .223 AR parts kit, 1 ORF Mfg and you can choose either bare sided or Hebrew selector marked receiver, 1 ORF mfg replacement cocking knob, 1 Tapco G2 single hook FCG, and last but not least 1 brand new Green Mountain 18" 1-9 barrel. Thats a complete 922r rifle parts kit, just needing assembly. Kit has to ship to the buyer and receiver to a FFL, WE WILL NOT SHIP PACKAGE COMPLETE TO ONE ADDRESS WITHOUT CHARGING YOU 11% extra in excise tax. This offer good till kits are sold out, approx 75 avail.

selling for 600, thats a great deal, right? Ive been wanting to build up a gail for a while now and this is way more affordable than buying parts individually. I know the barrel is new and would have to be headspaced. Here are my questions:

Where do I find info on building a galil? Ive done plenty AKs, I can handle it i just need info

How hard is it to headspace one? Ive only worked on matching #s kits....


TIA folks

[troyus]

That is neat, what are the like to shoot, more AR or AK?

[Lateralus]

That is neat, what are the like to shoot, more AR or AK?

well, ive never had the pleasure, but im guessing its more like an AK. Seeing as how the galil operates the same as an AK (with minor differences) im sure the caliber doesn't make as huge of a difference.

[rssslvr]

The galil is alot more work to build than an AK.You can find some info about building them on uzitalk.com.The US barrels are virgin barrels so just about everything needs to be done to them.The grove for the handguard retainer is already cut in the barrel so that's kind of a PITA cause you need that to be in the right position when the barrel headspaces.Alot of people have to end up using shims to get the barrel in the right position and have it headspace.


It shoots more like an AK than an AR.Great rifles but fairly heavy for a .223.ORF is great to work with and they are more than happy to work with us behind enemy lines

Oh the US barrels are not chrome lined

[4 Brigada]

Whats the price for their galil rifles? By the time you look at all the extra things to build the kit. Could maybe buy one built from them or someplace else.

[rssslvr]

My ORF built galil ended up costing me around $1300 shipped with the mods to make it cali compliant

http://rapidfire.targetweb.net/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi/agora.cgi?cart_id=4205874.6269*VR1BL6&p_id=02149&xm=on&ppinc=big

[NeoWeird]

Yeah, the Galil is not a job for the faint of heart; especially with the problems I've seen arise from them lately. I was one of the oriignal Galil receiver purchasers (I believe mine falls in the 200ish range - within the first batch of 300 they did if I remember right) and the barrels were cut to the IMI standards and not the ORF standards who reversed engineered the receivers originally using a bad specimen and having ill set up equipment. I've heard they have since fixed many of the problems but it does not change the fact that the Galil IS a much more difficult firearm to assemble.

Keep in mind it is a milled receiver - NO adjustment's headspace wise. You install it, ream it, and you're done. The barrels have come pre-headspaced so if it doesn't time right then you are screwed. To give you an idea you NEED the following tools - these are REQUIRED not recommended:

Mill
Hydraulic press
Torque wrench
Armorers wrench (can be fabbed with steel stock)
Receiver vise
Headspace reamers and gauges

You'd probably also use a drill press at some point in time, although the mill could work I'd prefer the ability to 'float' the part when doing some of the drill work. There are also some inherriant problems that arise from the Galil family alone; and almost all parts need to be fitted; even the dust cover. You should also be VERY familiar with drilling and light milling and know how to heat treat metals without crystalizing and weaking the surrounding metal. I personally haven't take the opportunity to start mine any more than an initial test fitting of parts, but it will be a MAJOR handful. I'd probably rank difficulty to build like this:

AK
AR
FAL
H&K
Galil

Not trying to discourage you, but this isn't a '2 hour' job. It's more like a '2 hours a day for a month' type of job and then you get to worry about proper finish on the gun; which can be difficult since parts are aluminum and parts are steel. It's a great deal, but in the end you probably won't save much money but you'll learn a bunch about it with the hazard of possibly damaging it before firing it.

Hey rssslvr, I know we got our kits and receivers at the same time and I was wondering if you traded in your receiver for the newer batches of better quality ones. I didn't because I wanted the challenge of building my own. The barrel timing is going to be KILLER, but I am thinking I MIGHT just fab my own Galil barrel from a blank for my rifle and then build my own Micro-Galil receiver and use this barrel but cut it down and see what fun stuff I can do with it. In any event, how'd you end up fixing it and how'd it come out?

[rssslvr]

Hey rssslvr, I know we got our kits and receivers at the same time and I was wondering if you traded in your receiver for the newer batches of better quality ones. I didn't because I wanted the challenge of building my own. The barrel timing is going to be KILLER, but I am thinking I MIGHT just fab my own Galil barrel from a blank for my rifle and then build my own Micro-Galil receiver and use this barrel but cut it down and see what fun stuff I can do with it. In any event, how'd you end up fixing it and how'd it come out?

I still have my receiver I did send it in to ORF and they opened the magwell to accept the AR mag adapter.I ended up buying a complete rifle from them and put my build on hold.Since the complete rifle I got from them is an AR I was thinking of doing an ARM out of the receiver.

If you end up doing a micro receiver I'd love to come make one too

Cutting your own barrel from a blank with the threads set so it will time right would make the assembly much easier,mine times way off.

[NeoWeird]

I still have my receiver I did send it in to ORF and they opened the magwell to accept the AR mag adapter.I ended up buying a complete rifle from them and put my build on hold.Since the complete rifle I got from them is an AR I was thinking of doing an ARM out of the receiver.

If you end up doing a micro receiver I'd love to come make one too

Cutting your own barrel from a blank with the threads set so it will time right would make the assembly much easier,mine times way off.

Yeah, mine is about 120 degrees off and I doubt the 300ft-lbs needed to torque that thing will make that big of a difference. I can handle EVERYTHING on it, but I just can't figure the best way to time the barrel right and maintain hedspace. You can shim the barrel to get it to time, but then you can't headspace it. I was thinking of cutting off a small step on the front of the receiver to get it to time right, then re-machining the extractor grove and rechambering but then the handguard grove is off. I am thinking re-barreling is the best bet, then I can also go for a chrome lined barrel if I wanted, and I can play with the GM barrel I got with my kit.

I'm thinking that I have a couple options with the left over barrel.

(1) Make it work on my receiver and most likely end up with an extra handguad retaining slot somewhere on the barrel most likely covered by the handguard or the gas tube.

(2) Purchase another galil receiver with the proper thread timing and make a uber short carbine (figure I would make my first Galil an ARM anyways - finding the bipod and what not at a proper price is mighty hard to do though.

(3) Homebrew Galil. I could then thread the barrel first and mill away until I get it to time proper, at which point I machine the receiver using the front as the datum for all measurments and use reverse engineering and hand fitting the parts for the rest.

(4) Make a Bastardized Micro-Galil receiver and use AR, AK, and Galil parts to make my own unique home-brew weapon. Finding the Micro-galil buttstock without price gouge would be hard, but I could always try to fab my own.

(5) Micro-Galil pistol. Solves the buttstock issue and all I really need is the handguard which ORF now has.

(6) sell it for extra money to fund the ARM parts.

(7) 100% homebrew firearm on .223.

(8) Set it aside and wait for later.

Seeing as I've done #8 far too often with other items I don't want to do that, and who wants an ugly firearm so #1 I think is out. I am thinking #3, 4, and 5 sound the best; if I fail I can always revert to #2, and if I get frustrated I c an always drop down to #6.

I wonder what Grammaton did with his...

[rssslvr]

Yeah # 3,4 and 5 sound like the best route.I would go with a chrome lined barrel if you can.You could also try and find an IMI barrel,I have seen them pop up for sale a few times but are in the $200-300 price range.Grammaton still has his too.We should all try and get together somtime and work on them.

[Max-the-Silent]

was browsing around ORF today and noticed this:

http://rapidfire.targetweb.net/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi/agora.cgi?cart_id=4205874.6269*Uo7md1&p_id=02172&xm=on&ppinc=big

info:
Here is what you get. 1 Century Galil .223 AR parts kit, 1 ORF Mfg and you can choose either bare sided or Hebrew selector marked receiver, 1 ORF mfg replacement cocking knob, 1 Tapco G2 single hook FCG, and last but not least 1 brand new Green Mountain 18" 1-9 barrel. Thats a complete 922r rifle parts kit, just needing assembly. Kit has to ship to the buyer and receiver to a FFL, WE WILL NOT SHIP PACKAGE COMPLETE TO ONE ADDRESS WITHOUT CHARGING YOU 11% extra in excise tax. This offer good till kits are sold out, approx 75 avail.

selling for 600, thats a great deal, right? Ive been wanting to build up a gail for a while now and this is way more affordable than buying parts individually. I know the barrel is new and would have to be headspaced. Here are my questions:

Where do I find info on building a galil? Ive done plenty AKs, I can handle it i just need info

How hard is it to headspace one? Ive only worked on matching #s kits....


TIA folks

Lots of bad experience w/ ORF Galils - maybe google will turn up some first hand experiences.

The story that sticks in my mind is the guy who gut his, the bolt carrier would only move so far back in the receiver, not allowing the carrier to go back far enough to chamber a round, and he had to wait forever for a refund.

There could be a reason why Todd is selling these rifles as "kits" - caveat emptor.

[rssslvr]

Lots of bad experience w/ ORF Galils - maybe google will turn up some first hand experiences.

The story that sticks in my mind is the guy who gut his, the bolt carrier would only move so far back in the receiver, not allowing the carrier to go back far enough to chamber a round, and he had to wait forever for a refund.

There could be a reason why Todd is selling these rifles as "kits" - caveat emptor.

My ORF built galil clone runs 100%,fit and finish are nice too

[SI-guru]

The key is the serial # of the receiver, get a receiver above 7xx.

[NeoWeird]

The key is the serial # of the receiver, get a receiver above 7xx.

The problem arises from the fact that ORF did a minor recall, if I remember right they allowed you to trade in your lower serial Galil for a newer one, so they have a small surplus of these odd balls. What are they doing with them? If they have all the parts together, at such a bargain, it seems fishy since they could spend the $200 in labor and have a $1.3k rifle.

The problem with ORF receivers is they were reverse engineered. That means they took an existing IMI receiver and took direct measurements from it. This is fine, but it can cause problems. Stacking tolerances, miscalibration of measuring equipment, human error, etc. can cause out of IMI spec tolerances. If they were building all the parts to match, that's one thing, but using IMI parts requires a good amount of hand fitting for most of the parts. The ORF receiver is a GREAT product, but it WILL require work. Once worked on though it will produce a rifle far superior to just about any AK around.

Here are the problems with MY Galil receiver. From what I have heard some of these problems have been addressed but some of these problems still exist on the current production ORF receivers.

1. The busttock pin holes are eccentric preventing the buttstock from being installed. They must be enlarged to the point where they are concentric. This MUST be done in multiple steps on a mill as any walking or egging of the hole will ruin the receiver.

2. The dustcover retaining shelf requires heavy fitting. The ORF receiver was machined to the dimensions of the IMI receiver POST finishing. The result is the ORF receiver, once it's rather thick finish was applied, is slightly oversized in every dimension. Most parts require hand fitting because of this, but the dust cover is especially important as it holds the rear sight. If this is out of spec o r alignment due to improper fitting the rifle will never have a proper POA or POI.

3. The selector markings on the pistol grip selector are reversed. Now when the selector is resting on the safe marking the rifle can fire. This can be VERY dangerous to future owners and guest shooters. An 'american style selector' exists but it is very hard to find and is rather exspensive (nearly the cost of a new receiver ~$250+). Another option is to ignore or remove the markings altogether. Personally I think I am going to plunge mill them off, weld over the plunge cut, dress them clean, and then re-engrave the proper markings.

4. The extractor is NOT hardened. The Galil is known for having a violent and brutal extraction, on par with HK weapons, and the extractor has been known to get eaten after just a few hundred rounds if not hardened. ORF finish the receiver completely without hardneing the extractor for some reason so that must be taken care of. It was most likely NOT hardened to allow final fitting before hardening. In any event, it HAS to be done.

5. The magazine well is not machined properly. There is an extra shelf and a miss matched contour that prevents some magazines from being used. I know the steel IMI magazine work, but I've head that some of the polymer IMI magazines don't as well as most aftermarket magazines. This can be fixed with a mill or left alone if your magazines work with it.

6. The forward lug bearing surface for the bolt carrier is an inproper radius. This MUST be milled to the proper contour, which I belive is 5/16" if I remember right. The other option is to grind the bolt carrier to match the incorrect contour.

7. The bullet guide is not installed, usually doesn't come with kits, and is VERY rare to find spares. AK-74 built guides from milled kits will work (some with fitting). This isn't so much a problem as it is just a pain in the butt.

8. The rail cutt out is not machined properly and IMI clamps have trouble working. I'm not sure if this can be fixed as I haven't looked into it since I didn't want to put a scope on my rifle.

9. The barrel is miss timed. The only option is to fab your own barrel or Mickey Mouse a Galil barrel to fit. No company makes a barrel to fit the ORF receiver as there just isn't a large enough market for it.

There are probably more problems but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head. I set mine aside until I have the time to really give it attention to do it right. If you have the experience and equipment then it is a great project, but it is one of the most difficult firearm projects you will probably ever undertake (unless you are a serious gun builder and do many other firearms; but you wouldn't be asking how difficult they are if that was the case).

In any event, you can save some serious cash by doing it yourself, but on the same page you might scrap your receiver and end up paying twice as much for a lower quality version of what you could just buy complete. I like doing these types of things, so it's good for me, but your average joe I would recommend against it.

[NeoWeird]

Also, regarding the extractor, the claw is in my opinion just a tad short and does not get much purchase on the case even in the best of circumstances.
Once the claw becomes peened from the violent action of the rearward moving case slamming into it time after time, your day will be done and a good smith will have to heliarc on a piece of hardenable steel, re-machine it and heat treat it to work again, and that is IF you can find a competent smith to do it. The moral of the story is , heat treat before firing. Also Neo is right about the mods some of which I mentioned in my earilier post some I did not, and all those he mentioned are valid, except for the fact that all the mods can be done with files rather than requiring a mill, also the rear pin hole for the stock can be drilled oversize with a hand drill and an oversize pin installed, this is simple to do, the other issues require more finesse than can be explained here.

The problem with using a drill only on the stock is that the drill will walk and you will have a slightly canted stock. While this WILL work, it's not right. The best method is to drill the stock the newer size, drill one side of the receiver the new size and then use a mill to do the last hole. This will prevent walking and will get the stock sqaure.

And files can be used for all the steps, but the time and frustration would not be worth it with how much there is. Several hours of filing or 10 minutes with a mill - seems like a straight forward approach to me, especially considering the accuracy potential they both have.