New powder creates new gun

[Bug Splat]

When I build a rifle I build a load to pair with it. My latest build was a Savage 111 in 6.5-284Norma. While looking for a powder to use where else would I go but to the pros. The fav powders... 4350 and 4831sc. Worked up loads of each and the fastest I could push 140gr VLDs were 2850fps before seeing pressure signs. The faster I went the worse my groups got. I settled for 2850 and 1/2MOA.

The past 6 months I have been hearing about this new powder that is giving faster speeds, up to 200fps more with less pressure. Sounded to good to be true and more internet gossip but the rummer increased month after month. Despite having plenty of 4350 and 4831 I let curiosity get the better of me and I ordered 5lbs of Reloaders 17. All I can say is HOLY COW PIES!!!!!

Decided to load light for my testing and start at 48gr and increase by 0.5 up to 50.5gr. Most people seem to settle for 50gr at 3000fps which was my target too. Also heard R17 does not like to jump so I loaded the bullets all the way out to the lands with a OAL of 3.2950.

5 shots of each....

48gr avg: 3018fps
Group size: 0.70
Notes: No pressure signs at all. Vertical group string. High velocity deviation

48.5gr avg: 3067fps
Groups size: 0.65
Notes: No pressure signs. slight primer flow into firing pin hole. Vertical group string. Slightly less velocity deviation than 48gr

49gr avg: 3110fps
Group size: 1.04
Notes: sticky bolt, Increased primer flow into firing pin hole. Horizontal groups string. Even less velocity deviation than 48.5gr

49.5gr avg: 3158fps
group size: 0.22
Notes: Stick bolt but less than 49gr. Primer flow same as 49gr. Horizontal group string. Even less velocity deviation than 49gr.

Decided to go no higher as the speed and pressure were getting to high for my liking.

Not sure what the hell happened with 49.gr but 49.5gr seems to be the winner.


Thats an increase of 308fps giving 200ft-lbs more energy at 1000 yards than my previous load!!!!!! My rifle has been bumped up to a whole new level. My ballistic cards are all now worthless and I'll have to do the math all over again. My biggest problem now is to figure out what to do with all my 4530 and 4831 powder

[wooger]

Keep us posted, I have recently discovered RE22 outperforms 4831sc in my chamber.

[wtkaiser]

So you are happy with an apparently over-pressure load? True, the group is incredible. But the pressures seem too high to me. Anything that causes a sticky bolt is too high, plain and simple, seems to me. And primer flow by itself is not a symptom to worry too much about, but in conjunction with that bolt?
I freely admit to being a reloader who is not experienced in "edge of disaster" loads, so maybe it's safe. But it's not by my personal standards.

[toby]

I think your getting to the point where your Barrel will give out 3-4 times faster than that of the slower 6.5-284. But if your not worried then keep on rockin.

[Bug Splat]

The pressure is not that high. When I say "sticky" I mean slightly above lift on an unfired cartridge. I have felt hot loads and this is on the very low end. I'm not even getting flattened primers so I feel good about it.

As for barrel life I'm not too worried. I've only planned to shoot this barrel for 1000 rounds and I'm already at 700. I'll set it back .5" on each end when the accuracy goes to hell but I'm already planning on ordering a new Shilen barrel next month for when the set-back barrel burns out. Beauty of savage is I can swap barrels all day long

[russ69]

Here's a good link: http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

[Fjold]

I shoot the 6.5x284, pressure is funny some times.

Take a small sample of brass, 5 rounds or so and reload them over and over. The 142 grain SMK loads at 3,000 fps using 4350 and 4381 that "everyone" uses eats brass like it's going out of style. It pisses you off when $1.20+ lapua brass lasts you two reloads.

From the article on 6mmBR:

Even at the hottest load, 41.8 grains (3311 fps) of RL17, German did not observe sticky bolt lift or other notable signs of pressure. Sticky bolt lift means that you are flowing brass and you are well north of 62K psi.

The other thing from all the experiments with this powder is that they are getting these velocities with 31" barrels. The 5" of length over the 26" standard match barrels is worth at least 200 fps.

[wtkaiser]

Bug splat, can you recreate those sorts of groups on demand, or was it a one-time thing? I still think you are playing with fire, but you are free to play all you want. I am tempted to do the same thing with the new 300 MP powder and a .44 magnum rifle - should be quite a show.

[BigBamBoo]

I have tried RL-17 a few times. The speed was there but it was very inconsistent. I attribute this to it being temp sensitive.
I went back to H4350 and though not as fast, it has always been very consistent and accurate for me.

[Bug Splat]

Bug splat, can you recreate those sorts of groups on demand, or was it a one-time thing? I still think you are playing with fire, but you are free to play all you want. I am tempted to do the same thing with the new 300 MP powder and a .44 magnum rifle - should be quite a show.

Honestly, I don't know, I only had 5 rounds of that load. I was mainly shooting to test speed and pressure. It could have been a fluke. After doing a detailed inspection of the brass I think I'm going to drop down to 48.5gr. There was too much flow with 49 and 49.5gr. Not worried about the rifle but the cost and availability of brass. At 49.5gr i'd be lucky to get 3 reloads out of them. If I drop to 48.5gr I should be able to get at least 7