Question about Surplus Ammo

[Mugwump]

For those of you who have been shooting surplus .308 and .223 for a while, once is dries up is it gone for good?

I first got on board with the Spanish .308 (Santa Barbara) and South African .223 and noticed it is rather difficult to find now. I recently purchased South African and Argentinian .308, and was wondering if these will be gone soon?

Another reason I ask is because I came across a thread on another forum stating that the hirtenberger (spelling?) was good stuff, but that is almost non-existent as well?

Thanks for any responses.

[C.G.]

Yup. A foreign military decides to get rid of it's stock every so many years and replaces it with new ammo. If those stocks hit the market in large enough quantities and the price is cheap enough, everyone can buy it. Eventually the stocks of surplus ammo are completely sold.

Then large retailers who bought the ammo by the container load start selling it at a decent profit margin.

As far as shortages of commercial .223 Remington, there's a war on. Ammo like Q3131A, Fed XM193 and a few others has gone up upwards of 20% if you can find it.

I can't find it (XM193).

[TonyM]

I can't find it (XM193).

Wideners has it, but it is a little more pricey with shipping.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=6385&dir=18|606|607

[C.G.]

Wideners has it, but it is a little more pricey with shipping.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...dir=18|606|607

thanks for the link. I guess they know they are the only ones that have it.

[MicronuT]

i just got back from rettings, there is a battle pack of south african 308 now

[MicronuT]

ive seen alot of xm193 at turners

[MicronuT]

How much?

Actually, at the last Cow Palace show, Miwall had a small quantity of SA battle packs. Can't recall the exact price but it was in the $30-$40 range (IMHO "$29.95" IS $30--much like a "$1,350" firearm is really $1,400 once you add in the DROS, and dealer transfer fees)

i cant remember, i wasnt really paying attention.. i just saw it and thought.. "oooh, just one battle pack of SA...... i only use match through my 308 so i dont really need it..

[bwiese]

I generally don't buy ammo from 3rd or 4th world countries - in the words of Gunplumber, "don't buy ammo from countries that sh*t in their own water supply."

So the lowest I go for 308 is Portuguese or South African. Both are acceptable, but if you get a chance to get British Radway Green ("RG") or Australian 308 ammo, jump on it. Very consistent & accurate.

However, for 223/5.56 stay away from green-vinyl-wrapped British "Royal Ordnance" or something-something Aerospace. It's SS109 62gr ammo but it's very anemic and many folks with quality ARs have cycling problems with it, let alone its weak muzzle velocity. This was produced to try to keep the Brit SA80 rifles from crapping out (dismal failure).

As it stands I need to get a LARGE batch of Aussie or Brit 308, and a LARGE batch of Fed XM193 (IMI/Win Q3131A as 2nd choice).


Bill Wiese
San Jose

[Draven]

Bain and Davis has SA .308 battlepacks for $30.

[MicronuT]

does bains have any IMI M193?

[PanzerAce]

Hey, while you guys are on the subject of ammo, I have a Q for all of you. Basically, I have heard both horror stories and 'I swear by it' about their rifle rounds (havent heard any about the pistol stuff). Basically, it seems to me that all those saying they hate it are using semi auto stuff, like ARs, etc. While the people who swear by it seem to be exclusivly owners of PSL rifles. And since I havent heard anything from the Bolt action people, and that is what I would be shooting, do you guys have any DEFINITIVE yes/no on Wolf? Thanks for the help guys.

[TonyM]

do you guys have any DEFINITIVE yes/no on Wolf? Thanks for the help guys.

Definitive? Not really. I think it's really personal preference. The Wolf I have personally seen looked so bad that I wouldn't feel safe depending on it, let alone shooting it. The Chronograph reports I've seen on Wolf .223 is that it is very underloaded in comparison to name brand .223 or Milsurp 5.56mm.

I think it comes down to 100% personal preference. Look at it, if it meets your standards visually, try it out.

I think that the majority of the people that swear by it are slightly swayed by the fact that it's cheap. That always seems to pop up in their argument, something like "It's accurate enough and I can get 2.5 cases for the price of XM193!". Accurate enough? hmmm...

[C.G.]

Hey, while you guys are on the subject of ammo, I have a Q for all of you. Basically, I have heard both horror stories and 'I swear by it' about their rifle rounds (havent heard any about the pistol stuff). Basically, it seems to me that all those saying they hate it are using semi auto stuff, like ARs, etc. While the people who swear by it seem to be exclusivly owners of PSL rifles. And since I havent heard anything from the Bolt action people, and that is what I would be shooting, do you guys have any DEFINITIVE yes/no on Wolf? Thanks for the help guys.

I may try it when they'll come out with Grendel ammo in brass casings; don't have the balls to try the metal casings.

[MicronuT]

Hey, while you guys are on the subject of ammo, I have a Q for all of you. Basically, I have heard both horror stories and 'I swear by it' about their rifle rounds (havent heard any about the pistol stuff). Basically, it seems to me that all those saying they hate it are using semi auto stuff, like ARs, etc. While the people who swear by it seem to be exclusivly owners of PSL rifles. And since I havent heard anything from the Bolt action people, and that is what I would be shooting, do you guys have any DEFINITIVE yes/no on Wolf? Thanks for the help guys.

well, here goes, ... id probably put myself in the "id swear by it ammo" some recent tests i have seen, says that IMI M193 groups better than usgi. but the IMI is spec'd out the same.. and yea its hot stuff, but not match ammo. so if you fire any mil spec stuff, do not expect match groupings. wolfs new stuff is polymer coated. id still put usgi stuff as high quality plinking ammo, or the stuff you use when the zombies invade.. even ss109, its still more expensive than 193, but is not match ammo. i only use match ammo through my bolt guns and get fantastic groups.. <.5.
wolf, i think, is great for plinking.. no malfunctions whatsoever after almost a couple thousand rounds through my semi's with this stuff. its gotta be my number one plinker round, and for the price, i dont think it gets any better imo. i would not put any of this through my bolt's, as i only let it eat SMK. ive got usgi xm193 as well as IMI's. and ss109's in my stockade and see nohting wrong with lining it up for use with the AR's.. no issues with any of mine. though some people have functioning problems with various different kinds of plinking ammo. some rifles are just finicky.. <-- did i spell that right?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=177728

[MicronuT]

panzer, ive heard some good stories bout 62grn wolf. if you try it through a bolt gun, post results here. ive read some have sub groupings..