Pin your Colt Roger's Super Stock internally w/o pinning RE, keeping all parts same.

[AlexDD]

I have been searching for a long time to figure a way to pin a stock with out damaging the receiver or receiver extension.

This started when I saw the HK416 stock that had a set screw.

See thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=390503

I just thought the LEO would unscrew it.

I still wanted some more permanence but be able to change when going out of state. I have pinned many of my stocks to the receiver extension.

This led me to some wishful, and after DannTodd and Bill Weise said, poor thinking and an idea about a zip tie:

See thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=518109

Well I got my Roger's Stock in the mail. I noticed the locking mechanism on the bottom was pinned with a spring. It seemed that you could drive out the pin, place a spacer, redrive the pin and it would be fixed.

Well, it does.

Here are the pictures how to do it. Coming Soon.

Before



Before showing spring.



Pin Driven Out showing internal parts



I used a plastic 9 mm snap cap. That I first drilled in the center. Then cut so it was slotted. Installed the spacer in place of the spring.

You are basically filling the hole with solid material then restraining it with a pin. The levers can move because the plungers can move. If you tighten up the locking lever, see later, the stock doesn't move like the HK set screw.



Drove the pin back in. Note the large screw on this side. When this is tightened, locking lever, the stock doesn't move.






One of the biggest things to contend with was the theory of things missing in evidence, etc... Someone has to account for the missing spring.

I also have to say, even if you drove out the pin, the spring has been replaced by a spacer. When you remove the spacer, the entire three piece assembly falls out.

There is an added benefit, the Roger's stock has a screw that tightens down the stock so it is rock solid.

In fact, even if you drove out the pin, removed the holding plunger, the stock STILL doesn't move unless you unscrew the locking lever. I was thinking that screw could be replaced with a star/unique type head that is not readily available.

So, in order to make this scope back to telescoping, you would have:

1.) to drive out the pin with a tool

2.) possess the appropriate spring

3.) install the spring

4.) then unscrew the locking lever with a tool (or you could do that first then do 1, 2, 3)

I only considered this method, since it seems acceptable to pin a folding stock with a mechanism that requires a tool.

In the end, maintained all existing parts, did not damage either the stock nor the receiver extension, and the rifle stock is fixed unless you use tools twice to alter it.

For what it is worth, I still may pin to the receiver extension tube. I don't have $10k I want to spend defending. It was more an exercise to see if it could be done.

Also, I always travel with my lower separated from my upper, so my exposure is only at courses.

I recently read a thread about a bullet button proposed type stock, although same in theory, that scared me.

What do you think?

[AlexDD]

Completed.



Ps. This is the spacer cut that is then inserted in the tube, fat side first back in. The pin sits nice in tight in the channel that I worked with a dremmel so the spacer does not rotate; sort of like driving a pin through a deep slot regular screw.



My intent originally was to have the device sticking out but with out a drill press it was a no go. This was it pre-cut. The holes didn't align precisely enough and only one side was pinned. I still may do with another spacer.

[dieselpower]

...and if I tell you your telescoping stock is just broken and still considered a telescoping stock by the law..what are you going to defend yourself with?

The stock is still a telescoping stock, the mechanism which allows that is just disabled...

devils advocate here...

[AlexDD]

...and if I tell you your telescoping stock is just broken and still considered a telescoping stock by the law..what are you going to defend yourself with?

The stock is still a telescoping stock, the mechanism which allows that is just disabled...

devils advocate here...

I am not disagreeing with you. The thought of a bullet button type stock someone was proposing scares me.

That's why I said I would STILL pin the receiver extension; what's the harm and I like my $10 grand. Although, driving out a pin from a Receiver Extension is no different than driving out a pin from the stock itself.

But then there are a lot of folks with folding stocks that are in that same boat if you look at those other two threads.

Other Devil's Advocate Position that parallel


1.) One's pistol grip wrap is still a pistol grip if I unscrew the grip wrap screws around a Solar Tactical.

2.) One's pinned folding stock is still a folding stock, if I take the pin out of the mechanism that one bought on riflegear.

3.) One's pinned stock, is just a "broken stock", if I drive out the pin from the receiver extension unless one welded, or is it because I could still drill it out.

4.) One's butt pad, that makes one's rifle greater than 30", is less than 30" if I unscrew the butt pad.

5.) One's filled thumbhole stock, is just a "filled or broken" thumbhole stock, I unscrew the screws that attach the filler plates like on MachI design.

The issue is that of permanence, and how close to the edge one goes and does one want to be the test case.

Counter Argument

A featureless rifle with a RR Entry, Sully, or Rifle Stock with a MMG or Exile Tactical grip with no muzzle device would be the LEAST risk since none of those arguments apply.

(This is far fetched but I recall, if you remove the grip from an AR15, wasn't the protrusion itself considered a potential since the web of the hand could go around it)

For some reason the telescoping stock strikes a nerve where the others do not.

I always carry a fixed stock lower with me when I travel with my OLL's.

[dieselpower]

I am not disagreeing with you. The thought of a bullet button type stock someone was proposing scares me.

That's why I said I would STILL pin the receiver extension; what's the harm and I like my $10 grand. Although, driving out a pin from a Receiver Extension is no different than driving out a pin from the stock itself.

But then there are a lot of folks with folding stocks that are in that same boat if you look at those other two threads.

Other Devil's Advocate Position that parallel


1.) One's pistol grip wrap is still a pistol grip if I unscrew the grip wrap screws around a Solar Tactical. But there is a legal definition allowing and describing what is and is not a pistol grip...so disabling a pistol style grasp is allowed under the law.

2.) One's pinned folding stock is still a folding stock, if I take the pin out of the mechanism that one bought on riflegear. A pinned folding stock disables the ability to fold, not the mechanism that folds it. IIRC that is.

3.) One's pinned stock, is just a "broken stock", if I drive out the pin from the receiver extension unless one welded, or is it because I could still drill it out. Its not about the time tools and skill required, its about how the modification does what it does. Lets say I create a magazine that when inserted covers the magazine release button. Do I have a rifle that lacks the ability to readily detach its magazine as per the law...or do I have a firearm that can't detach its magazine?

4.) One's butt pad, that makes one's rifle greater than 30", is less than 30" if I unscrew the butt pad. The law says the OAL is what matters and was determined to mean with all gear attached as per the AG/DoJ when they were questioned on that same subject. I can unscrew any 16" barrels muzzle device which will cause many M4 carbines to fall into the 28.75ish pool....

5.) One's filled thumbhole stock, is just a "filled or broken" thumbhole stock, I unscrew the screws that attach the filler plates like on MachI design. Once again you have modified the stock to be other than the listed feature which is defined in law as such and is allowed under regulation to be modified to comply.

The issue is that of permanence, and how close to the edge one goes and does one want to be the test case. I think its about the end product and how you reached that as per the law.

Counter Argument

A featureless rifle with a RR Entry, Sully, or Rifle Stock with a MMG or Exile Tactical grip with no muzzle device would be the LEAST risk since none of those arguments apply.

(This is far fetched but I recall, if you remove the grip from an AR15, wasn't the protrusion itself considered a potential since the web of the hand could go around it)

For some reason the telescoping stock strikes a nerve where the others do not. Only when you disable the lever. If your stock lacks its telescoping action, then its no longer a telescoping stock.

I always carry a fixed stock lower with me when I travel with my OLL's.

The reason people shy away is due to the lack of opine in the AG/DoJ's "statement of reason" detailing issues in SB23. On the telescoping stock feature it wasnt addressed. All other features where defined and talked about. The safest thing is to interpret the core of the law as it is stated. The word is telescoping. If it can telescope, its a feature. If the lever that allows that is missing..it can still do that even though in its present condition it can not.

The laws says, "A loaded gun is one with a round in the chamber capable to be discharged"
I load an AR15 and place a trigger lock on it...is the gun loaded and capable to discharge? Yes, it just can't discharge.

[AlexDD]

^Thanks. I need to ponder.

My hard head can't get around when I pin the block, spacer inside the stock it is no longer a telescoping stock just like the block they use in folding stocks or the thumbhole stock example.

Each one you place an object then attached or restrained with a fastener that is on the stock to keep it from what it was.

PS assume I drove the pin through the circular block and did not cut it.

The separate locking lever is could be removed from the equation.

I am trying to understand.

[dieselpower]

another way to look at it (along the same lines as my other examples)...

If I disable the trigger is my rifle still a semiautomatic?

You disabled the lever...not the telescoping action.

The telescoping / Folding action IS the feature.