Forward pistol grip

[Stevil]

Okay so If you put a forward "broom handle" or straight grip on the forend of say a SU-16 DID you just create an assault weapon, is it Verboten?

[socalguns]

Get yourself a copy of the 2005 CFL

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable
magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to
accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and
any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip,
or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that
allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide
that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the
pistol grip.

[TimG]

Makes Nevada or Arizona look better & better doesnt it ??

[Stevil]

Man I could have sworn as long as it wasn't an angled pistol grip it was okay... pants!

[blacklisted]

How about if you tie a piece of string to it and wrap it around your hand?

[artherd]

But yeah, maybe every member needs to read that doc.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/ Learn it, Live it, Love it. (the hire an attorney who can apply case law to it but I digress...)

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/sb23.htm

978.20 Definitions

The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1:

(a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

(b) "flash suppressor" means any device designed, intended, or that functions to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision.

(c) "forward pistol grip" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp forward of the trigger.

(d) "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

[Gnote]

But yeah, maybe every member needs to read that doc.

I agree. My boyfriend had an old 30 round AR mag that he used for the Keltec. A nice gentleman we know says that we can't use because it would make the SU16CA an assult rifle. My boyfriend goes home and shows me the DOJ website to prove to me that, although very nice, our range friend was wrong.

[artherd]

I agree. My boyfriend had an old 30 round AR mag that he used for the Keltec. A nice gentleman we know says that we can't use because it would make the SU16CA an assult rifle. My boyfriend goes home and shows me the DOJ website to prove to me that, although very nice, our range friend was wrong.

The web has largely made attorneys obsolete for every-day simple questions by regular but educated folks. (they are still quite valueable for so called 'edge conditions')

The DOJ's firearms section should be required reading for any firearm owner in this state.

[artherd]

Fortunately I don't have to spend money for a lawyer to obtain something I already own legitimately.
...
Now if you were spending that money toward repealing SB23 for the good of all, rather than to achieve your own personal goal, it would be commendable.

How dare you say such things, do you even know who I am? Know anything about me? I suspect not by your tone and repeated inflamatory comments both in PM and on this public forum.

You don't see the irony in what you are saying here? Loophole abuse? Why don't you go talk to Evans Gunsmithing. Or Ronnie Barrett. Or Shoeless Joe Ventures. Or DSA Arms, Or any of the dozen other companies who are helping to make the high quality firearms available that consumers want to buy.

What have YOU done to repeal SB23? Or is it OK as long as your own 'personal goals' are achived? It seems you have incriminated yourself on the very allegations you backhandedly make against me. Why is this?

Technical Ted, I am getting sick and tired of you violating this forum's policy with personal attacks. Why in god's name are you harassing other gun owners, what do you hope to gain?

[C.G.]

How dare you say such things, do you even know who I am? Know anything about me? I suspect not by your tone and repeated inflamatory comments both in PM and on this public forum.

You don't see the irony in what you are saying here? Loophole abuse? Why don't you go talk to Evans Gunsmithing. Or Ronnie Barrett. Or Shoeless Joe Ventures. Or DSA Arms, Or any of the dozen other companies who are helping to make the high quality firearms available that consumers want to buy.

What have YOU done to repeal SB23? Or is it OK as long as your own 'personal goals' are achived? It seems you have incriminated yourself on the very allegations you backhandedly make against me. Why is this?

Technical Ted, I am getting sick and tired of you violating this forum's policy with personal attacks. Why in god's name are you harassing other gun owners, what do you hope to gain?

Ted has done more for this Forum than you probably ever will. You might want to give it a rest for a while.
I am not sure where you see that he is harassing you, but if you feel that, maybe you should PM him instead.

[artherd]

CG- I'm really not sure what I did to get Ted to pee in my cereal so to speak. But he's now stoped accepting PMs from me with the following:

Dude, I give up. Obviously you feel you've got a leg up on obtaining FA and AW's in CA. Fine. Have at 'em.

Aparently I upset him by proxy? My purchase of guns bothers (or somehow affects) him? This is so strange I hardly understand it.

Frankly I hope he's allright, he seems to be manifesting all the signs of some serious personal problems being taken out over the internet.

Whatever. If Ramon and the rest of the founders feel my posts and contributions on salient interpretation of CA firearms law are unwelcome, go ahead and ban me. I could frankly give a **** right now. If I want someone I don't know to come down on me with an emotional fatalistic argument, attack me personally, then turn gruffy and put me on ignore, I can find that on deomcraticunderground.com

I hardly need this kind of gruff from calguns members and fellow firearms owners I hold in high regard.

[C.G.]

CG- I'm really not sure what I did to get Ted to pee in my cereal so to speak. But he's now stoped accepting PMs from me with the following:



Aparently I upset him by proxy? My purchase of guns bothers (or somehow affects) him? This is so strange I hardly understand it.

Frankly I hope he's allright, he seems to be manifesting all the signs of some serious personal problems being taken out over the internet.

Whatever. If Ramon and the rest of the founders feel my posts and contributions on salient interpretation of CA firearms law are unwelcome, go ahead and ban me. I could frankly give a **** right now. If I want someone I don't know to come down on me with an emotional fatalistic argument, attack me personally, then turn gruffy and put me on ignore, I can find that on deomcraticunderground.com

I hardly need this kind of gruff from calguns members and fellow firearms owners I hold in high regard.

Technical Ted and Bill Wiese have accumulated a lot of knowledge, by reading, meetings with Rossi and Riegert etc., and they have shared a lot of that with us, for which they are rarely thanked. That is not to say that they are always right, but that is a rare situation when they are not. Many questions appearing now on the forum have already appeared many times in the short time I've been a member, especially ones about how to get hi-caps or an AR, with all kinds of funny ideas that wouldn't fly if you put a jet engine on them. Generally, they will answer them patiently, but sometimes may get annoyed or sarcastic if they are not getting though. I am not sure, what the PMs contained between you and Ted, but in posts aside from annoyence and sarcasm I really did not see any personal attacks on Ted's part.

We did not see eye to eye either, but resolved it.

On a different note, how do you like your AR-30 in .338? I've been eyeing those.

[artherd]

Technical Ted and Bill Wiese have accumulated a lot of knowledge, by reading, meetings with Rossi and Riegert etc., and they have shared a lot of that with us, for which they are rarely thanked.

Agreed. I endevor to live up to their fine example in this regard. Like me they of course can be wrong, and I enjoy this forum as a place to hash out ideas and interpretations of law. It is from minds like these interacting and exchanging ideas that the likes of the FAB-10, the DSA FALs, even the new trends in large calibre compact defensive handguns, and lastly my favourite, the CAL M82A1 <nuzzle> etc. have been born.

We did not see eye to eye either, but resolved it.

I honestly am sure there's nothing here we can't resolve. I think I just got a message through to Ted so hopefully we can continue this offline. Hopefully we've just gotten off on the proverbial wrong foot. At worst hopefully we can respectuflly agree to disagree.

On a different note, how do you like your AR-30 in .338? I've been eyeing those.

I'm growing very fond of the AR-30. Just shot some 5 and TEN shot 1/2MOA groups doing load development, and I think the rifle has even more to offer if I can hold it. (93gr of RL-25, Lapua Brass, GM215M primer, 250gr SMK.)

Likes:
* It's a $5k bench rifle that costs $1300 and weighs half as much.

* The Round. The .338 is amazing. "what windage?" and hits like a freight train. I actually thought I was missing a 1/2" plate at about 560yds recently. Turns out I was punching clean through and kicking up dust behind it.

* Recoil with the Armalite brake is almost scary. There is none. I've shot very light .223s that recoil more. I'd say it's .243win average recoil.

* It also weighs only 14lbs fully dressed with a scope (right now a Shepherd V1.) It's light enough to make hunting a possability, though I would not want to carry it for a great deal of time.

Dislikes:
* Safety is cheeeeeesey. (stamped metal protrusion as likely to cut your hand as anything.)

* Magazine rattles when inserted and EMPTY. When full with even 1 round it seems to stay quiet and put.

* Not really fair, but if the forearm were 2-3" longer I could hold it offhand a little better when the bipod is mounted.

* Only other gun I'd consider at this point in .338Lapua is the AI, at over 4x the cost.

[C.G.]

You pretty much summed up what everybody else has had to say about the AR-30. Originally, I was thinking Ferret .408 Chey-Tac (which I still may get), but may be better to start with the AR-30 .338 LM for LR. Unfortunately, Armalite has no plans to make an "AR-40" in Chey-Tac.
What kind of a scope you got?

[RRangel]

Sorry to be off topic, but a reminder is in order. We all have something to contribue and we can do that without any negativity.