AR target rifle

[jbush]

I was following a post the other day about a bolt guy asking about ARs for target accuracy and there were some great answers. Tried searching for that post, can't find it. So..... let me ask my questions.

If I understand it a non chrome barreel will be more accurate then a chrome barrel?

A stainless steel barrel will be more accurate the chrome moly?

What about bull barrels?

Barrel twist?

Barrel length. I'd like to keep it short as possible, but I'm assuming that will effect accuracy. Does anyone know where I can find stats on proformance of assorted barrel lengths. Or anyone have experience with different barrel lengths?

What about triggers? Anyone recommend a good trigger. I saw an article where most built ARs are anywhere between 4 1/2 to 7 lbs factory, seems a little heavy for target. Single stage? 2 stage? Suggestions??? Ideas?? Some input on what works and what doesn't?

Thanks in advance

[21SF]

Some chrome lining can affect accuracy negatively due to the application process, sometimes the coating can end up uneven.

Stainless barrels tend to be more accurate than moly, yes.

Bull barrels: barrel contour.

You need to understand that everytime a shot is fired there are vibrations that occur withing a barrel (barrel harmonics).

The thinner the barrel, the more potential the barrel has to "whip" back and forth (vibrating) , this also increases with barrel length.

Heat also affect the harmonics of the barrel, thinner barrels get hot faster but cool quicker vice versa with thicker or bull barrel profiles.

[Nathan Krynn]

It is hard/ impossible to chrome a barrel evenly so that is why non-chrome lined are more accurate.

Stainless blanks are easier to get a straight bore and cut the rifling, so they are typically more accurate but not all ways.

Bull barrels can retain more heat but shed it slower so they are better for bench only rapid firing. 99% of people will be fine with a med profile.

Twist is all about the length (not really gr) of the bullets you chose to shoot. So those small varmint rounds are better with a 1:9 or 1:12 but those long 80 smk are better with a 1:8 or a 1:7.

Length has nothing to do with better accuracy, this is a misconception that is as old as guns them selves. Shorter barrels are stiffer with less barrel whip so more accurate. But the longer the barrel you burn more powder so get more velocity and stay super sonic longer and better for wind deflection.

Yes those are good numbers for factory triggers, heck mil-spec calls for up to 11#. I will not sell a single stage less then 4#, it is dangerous especially for any other shooting then prone or bench. I use 2 stagers for this and Geisselle ones to me are the best.

EDIT: also you will not find stats on barrel length like what you are asking, just vagueness. Barrel length and velocity are not linear no matter what any physics professor will tell you. I have seen barrel tests of cutting one inch at a time and seeing what it does to velocity from 24" to 8" and you will see some increments with no change and some with huge changes.

Ammo has a huge amount to do with this as well, heck typical "match" ammo will have powder variations of .5 gr but when I load match ammo it is .1, also case capacity, bullet weight, seating depth, all of it makes huge differences in the games of target shooting.

[Black Majik]

What bullets do you intend to use?

[gmcal]

I was following a post the other day about a bolt guy asking about ARs for target accuracy and there were some great answers. Tried searching for that post, can't find it. So..... let me ask my questions.

If I understand it a non chrome barreel will be more accurate then a chrome barrel?

If you mean chrome lined then yes

A stainless steel barrel will be more accurate the chrome moly?

Usually

What about bull barrels?

Should take longer to heat up which will take longer for your groups to open up but also heavy. If shooting from a bipod or rest then it won't matter

Barrel twist?

Depends on what gr. ammo you wish to shoot. Most match grade barrels are 1:7 or 1:8

Barrel length. I'd like to keep it short as possible, but I'm assuming that will effect accuracy. Does anyone know where I can find stats on proformance of assorted barrel lengths. Or anyone have experience with different barrel lengths?

How far do you want to shoot? 16" works just as well as longer barrels at shorter ranges. Once you go out to 400-500 yards 18" or longer may be desirable, although the 16" can still do it. Ammo will also come into play

What about triggers? Anyone recommend a good trigger. I saw an article where most built ARs are anywhere between 4 1/2 to 7 lbs factory, seems a little heavy for target. Single stage? 2 stage? Suggestions??? Ideas?? Some input on what works and what doesn't?

Geisele, Timney, and many others. Adjustable non-adjustable. Lots of options.

Thanks in advance

...

[jbush]

To answer a few questions. I know almost nothing about ARs. Must of my shooting will be 300 yds or under at paper, but in a year or 2, I'm moving to Arizona and there's alot of coyotes to shoot at. Have not taken type of ammo into account at all, but for everyday targets probably whatevers available that relatively inexpensive, doubt I'll shoot much match ammo. Don't want to get too heavy a rifle but super lightweight isn't necessary. I was going to buy a bolt gun but thought I'd look into an AR before I did it. Thanks

[mif_slim]

No semi-auto gun will ever out shoot a bolt action!!

[Black Majik]

To answer a few questions. I know almost nothing about ARs. Must of my shooting will be 300 yds or under at paper, but in a year or 2, I'm moving to Arizona and there's alot of coyotes to shoot at. Have not taken type of ammo into account at all, but for everyday targets probably whatevers available that relatively inexpensive, doubt I'll shoot much match ammo. Don't want to get too heavy a rifle but super lightweight isn't necessary. I was going to buy a bolt gun but thought I'd look into an AR before I did it. Thanks

Just something to consider, but "match" barrels don't matter much without high quality match ammo to go with it.

If you're just shooting plinking 55 gr factory ammo, you can't really expect much precision out of your AR no matter how good your barrel is.

[repomanNWP]

I'll chime in mostly on the trigger question.. I just built a target AR, and yes, I chose a 20" stainless match barrel, but I think for me a bigger decision was the trigger. I opted for a Geissele DMR two stage trigger. It was very pricey ( I think I paid $275), but now that I've shot with it, I think its worth every penny and more.

With the two stage DMR, you get a very very smooth 3lbs pull initially. That initial 1st stage pull is super smooth and even. After a shot pull length, you feel a noticeable stop, at which point, I've set mine (its fully adjustable) for another 8oz's before the sear/trigger breaks. Although the overall weight is now 3lbs 8 oz's, it feels like an 8oz trigger since you've already pulled the 3lbs and you can sit comfortably at that stop until your sight picture and breathing is right, and then just pull 8oz more to fire, its like the best of both worlds, a match trigger with the safety of a combat trigger. Absolutely brilliant design. Geissele also makes a pure match grade precision trigger with something like a 1.5lbs initial pull and an adjustable 2nd stage just like on the DMR. To me, I thought the DMR would be a better overall choice and I'm happy I got it - plus, you can reduce the DMR 1st stage from 3lbs to something lower by bending the legs of the spring.

So, I highly recommend you consider a high quality match grade trigger, either one or two stage (I prefer two). Save money elsewhere in the rifle so you don't have to cheap out on this part. Good luck, I LOVE my precision AR.

[jbush]

No semi-auto gun will ever out shoot a bolt action!!

Thanks, I'm aware a bolt gun can out shoot a semi. Just looking at options.

REPOMAN thanks for the trigger info. On my rifles I shoot regularly at the range the triggers have been lightened and it's money well spent. Thats the kind of info I was looking for. Anyone else want to jump in about triggers, barrels, etc. I only want to build this once if possible.

[gmcal]

To answer a few questions. I know almost nothing about ARs. Must of my shooting will be 300 yds or under at paper, but in a year or 2, I'm moving to Arizona and there's alot of coyotes to shoot at. Have not taken type of ammo into account at all, but for everyday targets probably whatevers available that relatively inexpensive, doubt I'll shoot much match ammo. Don't want to get too heavy a rifle but super lightweight isn't necessary. I was going to buy a bolt gun but thought I'd look into an AR before I did it. Thanks

A 16" stainless barrel with a 1:8 twist and wylde chamber and free float rail/handgaurd sounds like the best choice for you. Get a good trigger and you're set.

A chrome lined barrel might satisfy your needs also but if you go that route you'll most likely get a 5.56 Nato chamber and 1:9 twist barrel. The nato chamber will be a little looser and slightly less accurate than the wylde chamber, the 1:9 twist is ideal for someone shooting 45 gr.-62 gr. ammo, which is the cheapest and most available ammo.

Bolt guns are also good and often cheaper choices. But unless you pay for a custom bolt gun, bolt guns don't necessarily shoot more accurately than ar's. They are just easier to shoot accurately.

[jbush]

Thanks gmcal. That's kinda what I was looking at. Can someone throw a few brands of good quality uppers out there for me please, without gonig over the deep end on price (450 to 700 range). I was looking at, I think it was Rock River. Or would it be cheaper to buy parts and build an upper. I've bult a few rimfire rifles and while receiver, bolt, etc. play a part, it usually gets down to putting money into trigger and barrel for the most effect. Thanks again

[gmcal]

Thanks gmcal. That's kinda what I was looking at. Can someone throw a few brands of good quality uppers out there for me please, without gonig over the deep end on price (450 to 700 range). I was looking at, I think it was Rock River. Or would it be cheaper to buy parts and build an upper. I've bult a few rimfire rifles and while receiver, bolt, etc. play a part, it usually gets down to putting money into trigger and barrel for the most effect. Thanks again

If you build your own upper, you'll need some specialized tools. So unless you plan on building multiple uppers it is probably better to buy complete. There are not many choices for uppers with stainless uppers in that price range. Rock River should work well for you. You can also check out palmettostatearmory.com but I think they are out of stock at this time. PSA is new to making their own ar's, but they use good parts and have been around awhile selling ammo and other shooting related items. Initial reports from people that have bought PSA rifles are good so far.

If you wish to go with a chromelined upper, which I think will also work well for you at 300 yards, you have more options. You could probably reasonably expect 6-8" groups, maybe better, at 300 yards if you do your part and have decent ammo. As mentioned, better ammo equals better results.

[gotsig]

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/home.php

[jbush]

I got some great info here. Can I just ask a couple more questions? Barrel twist, whats the accuracy difference in say a 1-7 to a 1-8 to a 1-9 to a 1-12 twist, any benefit to one over the other??? If I buy an upper and want to change the barrel later, how hard is it??? Thanks again