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  • nssurge
    Senior Member
    CGN Contributor
    • Jun 2011
    • 787

    Question regarding rifle length

    So, I was at an FFL and overheard the salesman showing a polish under folder AK. It had a bayonet(not permanently attached) and an unpinned stock. He was saying that if the bayonet is on, the stock can be folded and still meet the legal requirements. Also that the stock must be unfolded without the bayonet.

    My question is, was this correct? I was under the impression it must permanently be at 30" inches folded.
    Last edited by nssurge; 10-20-2011, 8:17 AM.
  • #2
    Mssr. Eleganté
    Blue Blaze Irregular
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Oct 2005
    • 10401

    Originally posted by nssurge
    ...My question is, was this correct? I was under the impression it must permanently be at 30" inches folded.
    Barrel length does require permanence (pinned and welded, high temp silver solder). But for overall length there is no requirement for permanence.

    I don't think I'd rely on a bayonet to get me over the 30 inch requirement for semi-auto centerfire rifles in California though. It would be too easy for the bayonet to get "lost" in police custody.
    __________________

    "Knowledge is power... For REAL!" - Jack Austin

    Comment

    • #3
      FNH5-7
      Calguns Addict
      • Sep 2009
      • 9402

      Originally posted by nssurge
      So, I was at an FFL and overheard the salesman showing a polish under folder AK. It had a bayonet(not permanently attached) and an unpinned stock. He was saying that if the bayonet is on, the stock needs to be folded. Also that the stock must be unfolded without the bayonet.

      My question is, was this correct? I was under the impression it must permanently be at 30" inches folded.
      Sounds like FUD to me.

      Ok, so IF the bayonet is on, the stock is REQUIRED to be folded?if so, fud lol.
      If stock is unfolded, the stock must be PINNED in place not just unfolded.

      Don't believe what you hear at a gunshop. At a gunshop when you correct the clerk or owner they kick you out. Here on Calguns, when someone is wrong, hundreds of people jump in to prove he's wrong and correct him.
      Last edited by FNH5-7; 10-20-2011, 2:48 AM.
      Originally posted by FalconLair
      I weep for my country and what it is becoming.

      Comment

      • #4
        nssurge
        Senior Member
        CGN Contributor
        • Jun 2011
        • 787

        Originally posted by Colt-45
        Sounds like FUD to me.

        Ok, so IF the bayonet is on, the stock is REQUIRED to be folded?if so, fud lol.
        If stock is unfolded, the stock must be PINNED in place not just unfolded.

        Don't believe what you hear at a gunshop. At a gunshop when you correct the clerk or owner they kick you out. Here on Calguns, when someone is wrong, hundreds of people jump in to prove he's wrong and correct him.
        Sorry, I was tired. Corrected what I said.

        Comment

        • #5
          smittty
          Calguns Addict
          • Feb 2008
          • 6252

          Might be practical but it sounds valid. With the bayonet attached it's over 30" if the stock is folded, when stock is unfolded the rifle is over 30" if bayonet is removed. Just don't remove the bayonet when stock is folded...good luck keeping some from removing the bayonet!

          Comment

          • #6
            smittty
            Calguns Addict
            • Feb 2008
            • 6252

            I meant to say "might NOT be practical" but...

            Comment

            • #7
              Merc1138
              I need a LIFE!!
              • Feb 2009
              • 19742

              Originally posted by smittty
              Might be practical but it sounds valid. With the bayonet attached it's over 30" if the stock is folded, when stock is unfolded the rifle is over 30" if bayonet is removed. Just don't remove the bayonet when stock is folded...good luck keeping some from removing the bayonet!
              Plus there are ranges with rules against having bayonets attached/extended, so that might be something to consider as well on top of *click* "what bayonet? This is an SBR".

              Comment

              • #8
                nssurge
                Senior Member
                CGN Contributor
                • Jun 2011
                • 787

                This seems like a big mess waiting to happen. This same shop also had me muzzleswept a number of times, told me I should just build up rebuilds and say I've had them since before the ban and they were definitely not familiar with AW laws(even though their whole stock was AR/AK/AR pistol stuff).

                Bet you can figure this out if you're from the bay
                Last edited by nssurge; 10-20-2011, 9:31 PM.

                Comment

                • #9
                  crazy
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 1120

                  Finding this thread saves me from starting one. Reading another thread, this topic came up. I was going to ask about folding or collapsible stocks. So let me get this straight. If the length of a rifle is over 30" folded, it does not make it an AW? When I read the definition of an AW, that's not how I read it, but what the hell do I know. I don't see the part about under or over 30" and a folding stock.


                  [12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon"
                  shall also mean any of the following:
                  (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
                  accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
                  (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the
                  action of the weapon.
                  (B) A thumbhole stock.
                  (C) A folding or telescoping stock.
                  (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
                  (E) A flash suppressor.
                  (F) A forward pistol grip.
                  .
                  Things I have for sale.

                  https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1646789

                  https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1645958

                  https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1645863

                  Legal disclaimer: Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one, including me.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Merc1138
                    I need a LIFE!!
                    • Feb 2009
                    • 19742

                    Originally posted by crazy
                    Finding this thread saves me from starting one. Reading another thread, this topic came up. I was going to ask about folding or collapsible stocks. So let me get this straight. If the length of a rifle is over 30" folded, it does not make it an AW? When I read the definition of an AW, that's not how I read it, but what the hell do I know. I don't see the part about under or over 30" and a folding stock.
                    Re-read the PC you just posted, and look at the flow chart.

                    As CA law states, they measure the OAL in the shortest shootable configuration. This is separate from the AW feature related laws. Yes, you can have a fixed 10 round magazine, folding stock, flash hider, etc. However the OAL has to meet whatever the minimum OAL for that particular rifle(in the case of a semi auto centerfire, 30 inches) in addition to meeting any other laws(like having a fixed magazine).

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      crazy
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 1120

                      OK. Missed the part about the fixed mag.
                      .
                      Things I have for sale.

                      https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1646789

                      https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1645958

                      https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1645863

                      Legal disclaimer: Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one, including me.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        zfields
                        CGN Contributor
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 13658

                        Originally posted by Merc1138
                        Plus there are ranges with rules against having bayonets attached/extended, so that might be something to consider as well on top of *click* "what bayonet? This is an SBR".
                        It wouldnt be an SBR, it would be a CA AW.
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                        • #13
                          dieselpower
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 11471

                          The overall length is simply a matter of measuring the rifle in the shortest possible configuration without removal of parts, and still be able to fire it. Therefore rubber butt stock pads and bayonets are a legal way to extend the length.

                          What you heard was correct, but can be challaged in court since its not written in stone, just a procedure on how to measure the rifle.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            bwiese
                            I need a LIFE!!
                            • Oct 2005
                            • 27621

                            Barrel length does require permanence (pinned and welded, high temp silver solder). But for overall length there is no requirement for permanence.

                            I don't think I'd rely on a bayonet to get me over the 30 inch requirement for semi-auto centerfire rifles in California though. It would be too easy for the bayonet to get "lost" in police custody.
                            Correct....

                            This FFL is doing a disservice to his clients.

                            Bill Wiese
                            San Jose, CA

                            CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
                            sigpic
                            No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
                            to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
                            ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
                            employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
                            legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              nssurge
                              Senior Member
                              CGN Contributor
                              • Jun 2011
                              • 787

                              So am I right in thinking that if i were to fold it without the bayonet, I would be committing a felony?

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