AR Guy... Thinking of getting my first AK

[tacticalcity]

As an AR guy you are used to a certain level of fit and finish you are not going to find in the AK. It has a very "made in metal shop" look and feel to it. Little design quirks will probably annoy you. Such as the safety that intentional scrapes the finish off the receiver down to raw metal. The sights are considerably more difficult to use and magazine changes are a lot clunkier. All these comments will of course annoy the heck out of die hard AK guys. The AK is a nice battlefield rifle. I'm just warning you that it is a very different beast than the AR with it's own quirks. Quirks we would not accept from a commercial design. Quicks the AK only gets away with because it is an AK and has a mythos built up around it. So long as you are aware of them going in, they probably won't bug you. Would I own another AK? Definately. Am I in a hurry? Not really, the AK bug is not biting at the moment - but it could bite any time.

[FiveSeven]

^
Saiga's fit and finish is above excellent for a rifle that's close to a military type rifle. Safety lever won't scratch the metal bare beyond a point, it simply rides on that grove and will function just like that longer than your own lifespan even if you used it on a daily basis. With that said, well made AK will outlast AR (with it's extra parts) many times over. Even stamped receiver will outlast most AR (aluminum/alloy-cast/polymer) receivers.
Sight are superior to AR for fast target acquisition and very fast follow up shots. Peep/Ghost ring sights are good for longer accuracy, for shorter distance they are inferior to blade sights.
Magazine changes (they way it was design to) are not clunkier. It's all how or what your used to. The more you do something the better you get at it.

But hey, to each their own. Not your cup a tea and that's fine. AR is a good rifle, just not something I expect to last a lifetime without replacing many parts.
Own 6 AK/Saiga's all in 7.62x39 and won't trade them for any AR.
I actually understand your preference in guns, I'm the same way, just with the opposite view. In other words, I'm not trying to change your mind, understanding you can't do the same.

[zfields]

As an AR guy you are used to a certain level of fit and finish you are not going to find in the AK. It has a very "made in metal shop" look and feel to it. Little design quirks will probably annoy you. Such as the safety that intentional scrapes the finish off the receiver down to raw metal. The sights are considerably more difficult to use and magazine changes are a lot clunkier. All these comments will of course annoy the heck out of die hard AK guys. The AK is a nice battlefield rifle. I'm just warning you that it is a very different beast than the AR with it's own quirks. Quirks we would not accept from a commercial design. Quicks the AK only gets away with because it is an AK and has a mythos built up around it. So long as you are aware of them going in, they probably won't bug you. Would I own another AK? Definately. Am I in a hurry? Not really, the AK bug is not biting at the moment - but it could bite any time.

Sights are much easier to use....just not going to get a lot of the precision you are used to. There freakin handgun sights slapped on a rifle.

[zfields]

This is OP is the guy who has never seen much or handled many AK patterns. You avoid guys like this when he has a converted Saiga and thinks that is the end all.


Let me know when you want to take me up on my open challenge...Your conversion versus mine. Been out there for quite a while.

so you want to compare converted saigas?

[tacticalcity]

Sights are much easier to use....just not going to get a lot of the precision you are used to. There freakin handgun sights slapped on a rifle.

They remind me of Remington 870 rifle sights (I was exposed to this weapon system first) which don't work well for me either. Very low compared to your cheek weld. Not much to them so they can be hard/slow to pickup. But if they work for you then great. Use what works and what you like.

Gonna have to agree to disagree...what else is new, right?

I don't hate the AK. It just failed to meet all the hype. It was a bit of a let down given how full on fanatical AK fanboys are in both their love for the AK and their hatred of the AR. I've owned two. One custom built for me in trade by a member here (and he did great work it was not his fault) and one from a half way decent brand. They were fun to shoot, but no more impressive than my ARs. If anything less so. Both had the occassional malfunction. Nothing drastic, but they are supposed to be jam proof and make the ARs look like jam-o-matics. If anything they had as many if not more failures. The magazine changes were more difficult and for me the sights were harder to use. Add the fit and finish differences I commented on above I could take it or leave it, but certainly liked it more than a boat load of other options out there.

The myth behind the AKs invinsibility and the ARs failures are based mostly on experiences from the Vietnam war. Not only has the AR been radically and drastically improved since then (and the correct type of powder is being used in ammo now) but most the CA legal AKs are not Russian and Chinese factory originals. So the argument doesn't really hold up. But I was expecting it. So I guess that's my fault for expecting the myth to be true.

Nothing wrong with absolutely loving the AK. Just annoys me when they bash the heck out of the AR for reasons that don't match the reality and haven't since the 1960s. It makes me wonder if they ever bothered giving the AR the same chance I gave the AK. Because what they write/say certainly doesn't match the experiences I had.

Needless to say, I wanted to absolutely love the AK, and only just liked it. But I would definately own one again, if the right oportunity or circumstances popped up or I just got bit by the AK bug...which has been known to happen with me. Maybe the next one will impress me more? You never know. There are lots of different makes, models, styles, brands out there and I've only tried two. Someday I may just come accross the one that truly floats my boat.

Besides, that Vickers AK course looks like a lot of fun!

[FiveSeven]

Sights are much easier to use....just not going to get a lot of the precision you are used to. There freakin handgun sights slapped on a rifle.

Actually they were on the rifles for over a 100+ years.
Nearly all European WW2 bolt action had those sights. Many sharp shooters and snipers used those "handgun" sight one their rifles to achieve sniper like accuracy.
It's not the sights, it's the user then the weapon (in that order).
......but nonetheless open sight provide faster sight picture, better field of view especially at closer ranges, make it easier to intercept a moving target etc.

I don't hate it. It was just a bit of a let down given how full on fanatical AK fanboys are in both their love for the AK and their hatred of the AR.

No one in their right mind hates an inanimate object, it's a preference just like your own, no? There's plenty of preferences when it comes to firearms and what suits one's needs or wants. As you stated agree to disagree.

[C_1]

I'll take a made in Russia Saiga/AK (with sporterized stock and without muzzle threads), over a WASR, any day. Changing out the FCG, stock, and grip, is a piece of cake (keep in mind the 922R parts). Installing a bullet guide and filing the mag catch is not hard either.

AK sights are not the greatest for precision. Like another member mentioned, its basically pistol sights, but if you do your part, you should be able to hit a man sized target 100-300 yards out.

So what is the OP's question?

If you want a traditional looking AK, and don't want to spend a lot of money, get an inexpensive WASR; don't expect fit and finish to be like an AR. But if you don't mind modifying it, give the Russian made Saiga a look; an Arsenal AK is basically a converted Saiga.

[FiveSeven]

AK sights are not the greatest for precision. Like another member mentioned, its basically pistol sights, but if you do your part, you should be able to hit a man sized target 100-300 yards out.

Hate to beat a dead horse but you and the other member are dead wrong.

K98 and other Mausers, MN 91/30 and variants, Finn's Mosin Nagants, Swiss rifles all have those type of sight and non of them are pistols.

Have you ever heard of someone complaining of how inaccurate or lacking precision K31 is?
No comparing AK to bolt action rifle but simply pointing out that they are not pistol sights and great precision has nothing to do with those type of sights or other.

[C_1]

Hate to beat a dead horse but you and the other member are dead wrong.

K98 and other Mausers, MN 91/30 and variants, Finn's Mosin Nagants, Swiss rifles all have those type of sight and non of them are pistols.

Have you ever heard of someone complaining of how inaccurate or lacking precision K31 is?
No comparing AK to bolt action rifle but simply pointing out that they are not pistol sights and great precision has nothing to do with those type of sights or other.

Ok, let me rephrase the first part: AKs are not known for precision.

But I said "basically pistol sights," as in, for lack of a better description or proper term, rear square block with a slot, and front sight post. Most pistols have these type of sights, so when you look at an AK and its sights, well, its not hard to see why people call them the same.

And if you read the end of the last sentence of what you quoted, I am not implying that it is arrow, but the indian.

However, I think the last part of your post is a little off. Sights (nowadays folks are using scopes), among other things, go hand in hand with accuracy and precision.

[13204u]

To quote myself from another thread:

Which ak? The one that functions properly and is within your planned budget. The rest is really personal preference and has little bearing on performance.

[ZX-10R]

Ok, let me rephrase the first part: AKs are not known for precision.

But I said "basically pistol sights," as in, for lack of a better description or proper term, rear square block with a slot, and front sight post. Most pistols have these type of sights, so when you look at an AK and its sights, well, its not hard to see why people call them the same.

And if you read the end of the last sentence of what you quoted, I am not implying that it is arrow, but the indian.

However, I think the last part of your post is a little off. Sights (nowadays folks are using scopes), among other things, go hand in hand with accuracy and precision.

You are dealing with a guy who has a converted Saiga and thinks highly of it over any other AK pattern. Probably never touched anything outside of a Saiga. It is a waste of your time and others to even have the kind of conversation you are having with him.

Its about have and have nots and he is on the NOT end of it.

[FiveSeven]

You are dealing with a guy who has a converted Saiga and thinks highly of it over any other AK pattern. Probably never touched anything outside of a Saiga. It is a waste of your time and others to even have the kind of conversation you are having with him.

Its about have and have nots and he is on the NOT end of it.

Seriously dude, your making an _____ out of yourself.
Reading comprehension lacking a bit? Where did he ever said anything bad about Saiga and advised "other" AK platform over it?
I was simply pointing out and disagreeing with him that AK sight are not pistol sights. Those are rifle sight that have been used on rifles for a long time.

As to having a converted Saiga.... Yes, more than one actually and I'll take it over any other AK I've owned prior and current.
Note: not all of them are Saigas.
Still work in progress on a few.

[C_1]

We're all on the same team guys!

But to the OP, buy a WASR or Saiga, a bunch of ammo, and have fun.

[Flopper]

Saiga in 5.45.

Keep it unconverted so you can run high caps and drop mags.

5.45 is cheap and the terminal ballistics are great.

[zfields]

Saiga in 5.45.

Keep it unconverted so you can run high caps and drop mags.

5.45 is cheap and the terminal ballistics are great.

Meh, or Gripfin/monsterman it so you dont have to deal with the craptastic trigger and odd ergos.