The Winchester closing, My take

[Roboshred]

The plant closing was based on economics and an issue that no one has touched on much which is that US repeating arms will lose their rights to use the Winchester name next year and it doesn't look like OLIN is going to
renew the relationship with them. Consequently the Herstal group,
who owns USRAC is closing the plant. It may have lost money etc. but without the Winchester name in 12 months they will have diminshed sales and
no product/name recognition. The plant may close and may stop making 94's or it may be bought and relicensed through OLIN and still make them. The union work force will most likely be asked to take substantial cuts in wages and benefits in order to retain jobs. If they don't, the jobs will easily be exported for equal or better quality out of country. I would guess the name and product will be relicensed to a group under Beretta. The bottom line is I believe the signature product of Winchester will not go away nor will the name. There's very few marquis names like "Winchester" and it in itself has great value. See below for some text I found from various news papers.


"Come spring, the Winchester rifle, immortalized as the gun that won the West and rode into the sunset with John Wayne, will be made in Portugal and Japan."


"The Belgian-based Herstal Group owns the company, but the Winchester name is owned by the Olin Corporation, which makes Winchester ammunition. Certain models made in New Haven will be discontinued when the plant closes, but other Winchester guns will continue to be made in Japan and Portugal,"


"Missouri-based Olin Corp. owns the Winchester brand name. In the late 1970s, after a massive strike by its machinists, Olin sold the plant to U.S. Repeating Arms along with the right to use the Winchester name until next year.

Sauvage said the Herstal Group wants to extend that right past 2007 but Olin has not decided whether to allow it. Spokeswoman Ann Pipkin said Olin is disappointed with Herstal's decision to close the plant and may sell the Winchester naming rights to someone else.

[bu-bye]

Its a sad day.

If the guns are made over seas I'll bet that they loose half their sales. Gun buyers are very picky about things being made in America. You take an old name like Winchester and slap a made in Japan sticker on it and sales will fall like a rock.

I say sell the name and rights to a company in the states or don't even bother.

[Roboshred]

I doubt it

Its a sad day.

If the guns are made over seas I'll bet that they loose half their sales. Gun buyers are very picky about things being made in America. You take an old name like Winchester and slap a made in Japan sticker on it and sales will fall like a rock.

I say sell the name and rights to a company in the states or don't even bother.

Browning sells the Citori product and sold some 1892's a few years back with great success (made in Japan). I'd prefer that Winchesters be made here but just as Colt can't seem to get their act together so is the case with USRAC. The public flocks to well made serviceable products. This includes firearms. Think of the market share the CAS guns have then couple that with the production of the them made overseas. Americans will buy them if they are well made and cost effective. RB

[Ford8N]

Its a sad day.

If the guns are made over seas I'll bet that they loose half their sales. Gun buyers are very picky about things being made in America. You take an old name like Winchester and slap a made in Japan sticker on it and sales will fall like a rock.

I say sell the name and rights to a company in the states or don't even bother.

The lever guns made for Browning by Miroku(sp)? were excellent. I compared the Browning Model 65 to an original Winchester 65 and I thought the Browning was just about a perfect copy. Other than the roll mark "Made in Japan", the fit and finish was the same. My opinion.

[jtyoshi]

to bad the Japanese arent allow personal fire arm ownership...

[Turbinator]

How savvy are most consumers? The mass market seems to be fairly oblivious - evidenced by the notion that the recent run on AR receivers would help folks become more aware of our inane CA gun laws. If consumers in CA, and elsewere, were truly that up to speed on these little details, wouldn't we have had a much bigger outrage with respect to the passing of SB23 etc?

My opinion is that most people won't care where the gun is made - they'll still buy it anyway if they really want it.

Turby

[losangeles]

Yeah, it's sad that people have to lose their jobs.

But I generally believe in the free market system in which companies come and go, as dictated by supply-and-demand, and that companies need to do their best to produce the best possible products that meet demand in the marketplace cost-effectively. In this free market system, a company that doesn't do this, does not profit; and a company that is not profitable will not survive in the long-term.

That is free market economics. And overall, it's good.

Nowadays, with the market being global, supply is also global. Companies need to compete to profit, and need to profit to survive. Economies that try to prop up companies against the free market system, lose eventually -- if not now, then in the future.

If the Japanese companies are not savvy enough to compete in this global market system, they too will go out of business. If they do the job, they survive. It's very simple, really.

[icormba]

good ol' Winchester

[TrailerparkTrash]

Yeah, it's sad that people have to lose their jobs.

But I generally believe in the free market system in which companies come and go, as dictated by supply-and-demand, and that companies need to do their best to produce the best possible products that meet demand in the marketplace cost-effectively. In this free market system, a company that doesn't do this, does not profit; and a company that is not profitable will not survive in the long-term.

............You forgot to mention one more IMPORTANT thing....The frick'n UNIONS that breaks companies like Winchester and Colt.

You get some lazy assed union employees that demand higher pay and benefits, yet are impossible to fire for doing the minimal amount of work. That places these companies in a spiral downfall. They raise their prices so high just to pay their employee's wages that are passed onto the consumer. Eventually the company goes broke. Look at Ford......Yeah it's not 100% the union's fault, but they are the major cancer for big coorporations in my opinion.

[Poohgyrr]

The Browning M92s sell fast these days for a premium, and the Winchester/Miroku M92s are very well made. The M92s made by Rossi and sold under three or four different names clean up pretty well. I would really like to see the big red W made here, but it looks like that part of the country can't do it. So I dunno, in any case "they" don't do things my way, and time will tell what happens.

And bad employees, which includes management, are all over the place, and a real pain in the rear. Good employees are a good thing to have. Again, this is real life & they don't do things my way. Hah, imagine that.

[Roboshred]

True story

Poohgyrr, I want one of those end of trail hex barreled Winny's something
fearous. I saw one up north ahwile back but checked today and it's gone.
I'd prefer that the Winny's be made under the red white and blue but I
don't see the economics of it for the maker. It's not uncommon for DOD
contractors to force themselves into insolvency in order to get rid of their
prevailing wage/pension/benefits packages. I think in 2 yrs we'll get great
quality Winnies at near current costs. So I'll enjoy the 3 trappers(2 wrangler converts) I have. By the way, your local. Are you going to Oroville next weekend?

[shecky]

I can't blame unions too much for this. Unless the unions decide how to actually run the business. Winchester would probably be OK if they made products that people want to buy.

Winchester's only distinct advantage I can see is their name and association with old looking designs. I suspect the market for lever guns is probably flat at best, and in other lines such as shotguns and bolt rifles, where they have less distinction, they face very stiff competition from many other manufacturers, both domestic and foreign.

[Stevil]

It's terribly sad. Some level-headed entrepreneur needs to buy the plant (get rid of the unions) and the name and produce high quality versions of all the older famous rifles, kinda like Uberti... I'm sure the market would be there, just imagine a brand new Winchester 1866... drool.

[Poohgyrr]

Roboshred,

I was seriously drooling over the new takedown M94s they had in the new catalog. And yes, a 26" hex barrel, crescent butt, tang sighted 30-30 is still calling my name- these develop some serious ballistics when handloaded. They also look really cool.

I have a new, tuned, octagon 16" M92 in .44 Special waiting to be picked up at OSA.. It looks and feels sweet.

But no I have to work! next weekend and can't get away long enough to make it to Oroville....

And I wonder if the Winchester plant couldn't do much better in other parts of th ecountry. I remember when Mazda or whoever opened their plant here, and put it in the South or MidWest instead of Detroit.. And I think Ruger is there too... I dunno, I just want a few good Winchesters..


And icormba!! That is a great pic! Thanks..

[Leo762]

i think another reason why Win went down is because they arent making that much different rifles, they they make a lever action, a bolt action and thats pretty much it. i dont know but their recent stuff just doesnt really appeal to me.