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Im curious about this to cause the whole thing to me seems a bit contradictry lol
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Look up at the top of the forum under AW & OLL guides, read the flowchart and it'll make more sense. The DOJ is not in the business of making the laws readable.
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"Series" is too ambiguous, I don't remember off hand but case law established that the law must be specific as to what gets banned. That's where the named A.W. list and banned features was derived from.
Look at it this way, what is an AK? Well to one person it is one thing and to another it may not be. Remember we're fighting sheep who get their news from a talking head in a box. The thing they have on us is sheer numbers and stupitity, that makes it tough.There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
The others, well......they just never learn.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!"
Patrick Henry.Comment
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If you read what I said, the DOJ explanation is not meant to do you any good for understanding the laws. If you want to understand the AW laws, read the flowchart. Doesn't matter if it wasn't made by the DOJ or not, it is correct.
Not only is the DOJ website a terrible interpretation, but there have been instances(and probably still one or two on there) of things they posted that are completely inaccurate. If you've read any of the letters or memos that the DOJ has said to people, it's clear that they don't care when they tell you the interpretation is to be left up to the 50+ district attorney's.
Yes, I'm telling you that the DOJ is full of crap, loves to lie to the public, and is usually inaccurate. As SJgunguy24 pointed out, there is case law established(notice how the DOJ doesn't bother to tell you this?) that they couldn't simply ban every ar-15 and ak, just because a company makes something that looks like an ar-15 or ak. Everything on the flowchart has the penal codes referenced, as well as some of the cases. Get to reading. If you plan on deciphering the sense behind CA's gun laws, don't bother because it doesn't exist.Comment
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think i may have found what I'm looking for. reading through harrot v county of kings atm.
not trying cause problems for you merc, I'm just trying to get in black and white from the horse's mouth that i won't get locked up. i have a family i have to take care of and as much as i value and respect the information from this board i also have a responsibility to them to make sure i'm doing everything on the up and up.
please forgive me but i can't just take "just trust the flow chart and don't read the legal documents because the legal docs are full of crap". i believe that these firearms are legal but i was wanting someone to explain how the "series line" didn't apply which i'm learning from this harrot v county of kings ruling.
again, I'm learning a lot from this website and have much respect for it but it is my responsibility to both myself and my family to properly research the legality of what i am buying so as to not bring harm to them or myself.
helps that i live in kings county as well since this case should provide a precedent for rulings if some over zealous LEO arrests me otw to or from the range.Comment
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OK maybe this is how simple it is.
Picture of Colt AR-15 lower
Picture of spikes lower
Notice the difference?
One says AR-15, the other says Multi-Cal. Pretty much anything in California that says AR-15 on the side of it is a no no unless it was registered prior to the ban.
That is how simple I take the interpretation to be. Follow the flow chart, make it legal, keep the BB on and less then 10 round mags and your good to go. If the case was any different there would be a lot of gun shops being closed down everyday in CA!"I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." --Susan B. Anthony
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Originally posted by pappabaconComment
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I don't understand why you won't pay attention to what I'm trying to tell you. The DOJ will not give you a black and white "from the horses mouth" answer about this.
Like I said(and now you're doing it) you need to read up on the court cases, the DOJ will not give you an answer.
There is an example of one of the many times that the DOJ has said "well, it might be legal but you've still got to deal with 58 district attorneys"
As far as an overzealous LEO arresting you at the range, if they were going to do it, they're going to do it. As long as everything you've done is legal, that's when you call the calguns foundation.Comment
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State Supreme court ruled in favor of gun owners over this. Around 2004/5 period. It stated that the DOJ could not just blanket ban weapons based on a simple term AK or AR15. The DOJ had to specifically name the manufacturer and model. EX: COLT AR-15, BUSHMASTER XM-15...
This was to take out the question of if it is a banned firearm or not. And had to be registered. This is where you get the term listed.
Now, comes the Off List Lower issue. Same function, same everything. However, the name SPIKES, STAG etc all came after the official list came out.
So, combine an OLL with a bullet button BEFORE you complete assembly of the lower, or the weapon comes into the state through an FFL who has installed the BB on the gun prior to sending it to CA you can purchase it.
At no point can the bullet button be disabled, and at no point can a Hi-Cap magazine be added to the rifle. Even if you already owned the Hi-Cap mag before the Large Cap mag law went into affect. Inserting a Large capacity mag into the weapon WHILE IN CALIFORNIA triggers assualt weapon. Along with disabling the Bullet Button. So dont buy one of those slick BB magnet "tools"
As the other posters have commented if you want more gouge on this you are really going to have to read alot of the laws. The 2nd Amend forum has alot of good gouge on this, and does have docs that you can print out. You can make whatever folder you want to carry with you. The DOJ site is very misleading, and you could call them 5 times and get 5 different answers and none of the answers are the same or correct.
In reality if you are stopped by an officer he/she is not going to pay 1 bit of attention to your "folder of legal writs". I f you push a hot head officer he/she is going to push back. So you basically just shut the hell up, let them rage on, walk out of Jail and call Calguns foundation for legal assistance.
The foundation is still working very hard at trying to educate the state law enforcement community on the finite subject to prevent illegal arrests/detention. And they will help you so long as you followed the rules.
Off List Lower
Bullet Button installed and functional
No, folding/collapseble stocks
No , Hi capacity magazines in the rifle
Rifle barrel at least 16" or longer
Proper storage during transportation to and from ranges
Shooting in legal areasComment
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Ignore (e). The courts struck that part of the law down.
The DoJ is not a Lawyer. Let me explain with an analogy.... Call the DMV and ask them if a car can be bought or sold and is safe to drive. They will tell you to read the law or take it to an authorized inspection station. WELL a FFL is an authorized FIREARMS DEALER who will NOT sell you an illegal firearm. If an FFL sells it...its 99.9% sure to be legal. DoJ will not interpret laws nor will they provide legal advise.Comment
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Zukieast - Since when does Calguns foundation not represent someone because they have a collapsable stock on a BB rifle?Comment
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Need some clarification
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