Del-ton or Daniel Defense?

[pacifico23]

as far as the cobra vs ferrari analogy, youtube it, i've seen it. NOT UNHEARD OF! point is, the high end is NOT always better,but i guess ferrari is just so much better because, well its a ferrari since thats the kind of answers ya'll give????? and that bolt, yea it sucks, but i've seen colts explode, m249's break,could be ammo, operator error....could be defect, but is the bolt hard to replace? thought you could just drop that right in? could be mistaken, so on that note, every gun part that has defected in the history of all guns sucks, so lets say that ALL weapons are sh*t? they are all cheap and unreliable? can I load sum hot/defective military ammo in ur DD n see if it explodes? and if it does, we have to put them out of business. A DEFECT IS A DEFECT, IT HAPPENS! after all, the PRIUS is still a good car.

Yes please take creative writing classes. So lets say hypothetically, someone lays down two AR's in front of you. You can have one for free, one is a Del-Ton and one is a Daniel Defense....Your going to choose the Del-ton?
Personally after perusing the marketplaces, AR prices, forums blah blah blah. Honestly for 90% of people both will run perfectly fine for their occasional range trips or hunting trips. What I have found, the big thing is the resale value. Any Del-ton builds are rather hard to sell and if they do get sold its at quite a dicount. Not many people are interested in a used del-ton. Ive seen Daniel defenses a couple years old only going for like 100 less than msrp and being sold. Look at the calgunner marketplace, watch how long the Delton builds, CMMG builds, Spikes builds, Stag builds sit there. Unless they are giving a hell of a deal they will have a real hard time selling it.

That wont happen with Daniel Defense. Unless they are overpricing there AR.

[ktom300]

UPDATE on Del-Ton Bolts:

They have since upgraded to the 158 Carpenter's Steel bolts, that are both HPT/MPI tested and proof fired. 158 is what Mil-Spec calls for and the folks at Del-Ton have made that very important improvement upon their bolt to keep up with the market demands that everyone is crying about, and to curb all the naysayers like the type we see posting on this very thread about Del-Ton's "lack" of quality.

They listened to the consumer, they fixed the "issue" and there you go, you have a top quality bolt coming from them if you order one of their uppers now.

I ordered my midlength upper from them a couple months ago and couldn't be happier, it truly is 158 Carpenter Steel (bolt) just like a Colt, BCM, my Spike's (bolt), or in this case for comparison the Daniel Defense! The bolt I have is also clearly marked HPT/MPI as well for positive identification of their newer bolts.

Curious about this. When did they make the change? Are they replacing newish bolts that were made in the old material?
Pic attached is rounds 11-20 on a new 1/9 DTI Middy. Iron sights in failing light at 100 yrds with walmart 55 grain. For the record I suck with iron sights but wasn't too concerned with this 10 shot grouping.

[someR1]

Yes please take creative writing classes. So lets say hypothetically, someone lays down two AR's in front of you. You can have one for free, one is a Del-Ton and one is a Daniel Defense....Your going to choose the Del-ton?
Personally after perusing the marketplaces, AR prices, forums blah blah blah. Honestly for 90% of people both will run perfectly fine for their occasional range trips or hunting trips. What I have found, the big thing is the resale value. Any Del-ton builds are rather hard to sell and if they do get sold its at quite a dicount. Not many people are interested in a used del-ton. Ive seen Daniel defenses a couple years old only going for like 100 less than msrp and being sold. Look at the calgunner marketplace, watch how long the Delton builds, CMMG builds, Spikes builds, Stag builds sit there. Unless they are giving a hell of a deal they will have a real hard time selling it.

That wont happen with Daniel Defense. Unless they are overpricing there AR.

Resale doesn't matter when you only paid $600 in the first place

[tacticalcity]

Del-Ton is very entry level budget built AR. I've never experienced a problem with them and neither has anyone I know who owns one, but instructors have told me stories about a student of theirs who did. Take that for what it is worth.

Daniel Defense is arguably one of the finest AR brands around. You are not going to have any issues and if you do they'll fix it.

[AeroEngi]

thanks guys you have all been very helpful. I have purchased a BCM 14.5" carbine upper with a BCM lower. The BCGs from BCM were out of stock so I got a DD BCG. Can't wait to take it to the range!

How about some pics!

[Greg Mercurio]

Let the rifle do the talking:



Del-Ton upper, 16 inch heavy barrel. Reloads with 25.5 grains of BLC(2), Winchester Bulk 55 gr BTFMJ on a Dillon 550B Nothing special about any of this yet, strangely, it makes groups like this. All. Day. Long.

So what was that question again?

[tacticalcity]

LaRue, Noveske = Ferarri

Daniel Defense, BCM, LMT, Colt = Hummer

Spikes = Somewhere just below let's say Super-Duty, HD or whatever

CMMG, RRA, Stag, S&W = the average 1/2 ton

The last you got right on lol

Your list is way off. But that is because you cannot really rank brands that way.

People who do so often rank CMMG lower than they should because CMMG offers some entry level uppers as well as high-end uppers (but they like to pretend the high-end stuff does not exist). But even their most entry level upper rivals those made by Spikes.

CMMG is arguably on par with BCM. The offer the same wide range of quality and their products stack up well against each other. BCM fanboys HATE it when you say that, but it is true. ust one example, if you are looking for an upper high-end specs and a pinned and welded
hider then these two brands are the ones to see. If one brand offers it, you'll find the other one does as well. BCM has a better website, which has resulted in better press from the online crowd. CMMG treats dealers better so you are much more likely to see their products in an actual store. But their products stack up well.

Meanwhile the specs on the S&Ws lates have been incredible. Melonite coated 1-8 barrels as a standard option? That is impressive. So sorry, but your list is wrong.

Regardless, brand name is not nearly as important as the specs. And there is not one specific group of specs that is always better than another. Because it depends on the kind of shooting you will be doing.

Just as an example, let's look at barrel types and the kinds of shooters who need each:

Run and Gun CQB Type Shooters would be best served with a chome-lined 1-7 twist (because if you are paying for the lining take the free upgrade in twist rate) barrel. The chrome lining will last a very long time, and on the rare occasion you chose to pony up for match grade ammo it will be able to stabalize it. If you opt for chrome-moly or stainless steel odds are you will be replacing the barrel soon because your high rate and volume of fire will wear it out.

Precision, Competition and Bench Rest Whore Shooters would be well served by a stainless steel 1-8 barrel. The stainless material is soft and can be precisely machined for perfect or near perfect rifling that results in amazing accuracy and the 1-8 twist stabalizes the heavy match grade ammo. The competition guys, even the run and gunners in that world are the only ones in the group likely to wear them out - but that is the price of their sport. The other shooters will be shooting at such a slow rate of fire that they will not damage the barrel.

Plinking a Couple Times a Year Shooters can totally get buy with just a 1-9 chrome-moly barrel and never wear it out. So just about any entry level upper will serve them more than well.

That doesn't even take into account barrel length, or the countless other things that effect how well suited a rifle will be for a specific style of shooting.

Now lets look at what most people do...

Most guys see the Noveske (for example) Brand name and think, that is the best upper because of who makes it. They don't look at the specs. They don't pay attention as to whether or not the barrel (for example) makes sense for their specific style of shooting. So they end up buying an upper that will wear out way too fast, when the upper on the shelf right next to it made by say S&W (for example) would have lasted them a life time and met their needs much better. All because they read online that one is supposedly a better brand than the other.

Nike makes some really great running shoes. Some that retail over $200. But I am not going to want to wear them when running through the surf on the beach. I want flip-flops for that, even if they aren't made by Nike. Same principle applies to rifles. What you buy should match what you use it for.

What did I do?

I prefer running and gunning and really enjoy taking courses that teach that type of shooting. So my primary AR is 100% meant for that type of shooting. It has a CMMG Upper with 1:7 twist chrome lined 14.7" barrel and perm. attached hider. The reduced length suits me well. The lower started off as CMMG, but I got a little careless when upgrading a trigger guard, and I got a hell of deal on the SPIKES lower so I went with it for now. All but one of the many upgrades are things that serve a purpose. Such as cutting down on the amount gas I breath in, or reducing the number of steps in the manual of arms and speeding things up. The only pure ego accessory is the 4-rail handguards. Plastic MOE handguards would do just as well. But I got a deal on them.

My backup AR was meant to be exactly that, a backup. But I felt guilty building it. So I felt I had to justify it buy giving it a duel purpose...precision shooting. I also bought it one part at time of the period of an entire year. Proving you can build a high-end rifle without breaking the bank. A few of the parts are dealer samples and stuff I got for free - but all are excellent quality. Since I much prefer running and gunning, I insisted on no longer than a 16" barrel. However, since it is a backup and unlikely to be used and abused like my primary, I went ahead and added a stainless 1-8 barrel for the precise rifling that adds to accuracy when shooting match grade ammo. Not something I would have done on my primary, but something I felt was needed to meet the duel purpose requirement of a precision AR. The long extended handguards help protect the barrel when running and gunning and ensure that even if it gets knocked around a little it will maintain zero. So in this case, that choice served a purpose. I am still saving up for a decent optic. They cost as much as the rifle, which was very pricey, I am in no hurry however.

I am not saying I have the best rifles in the world. I am just saying, I thought about more than the brand names. I built each one to meet a specific need that I actually had. I put some actual thought into them. Which is what I recommend doing. Your rifle will probably be very different than mine and everyone elses, because we all have different needs and priorities. That is the great thing about the AR, no shortage of things to do when building one.

[kozumasbullitt]

I guess I will say it over like in past threads but DD is not trying to rip people off. They use quality materials and have quality craftsmanship with good QC. When you go for the budget brands, they skimp wherever they can to save money to pass on to the customer but at the same time they sacrifice quality materials, craftsmanship and QC.

[kozumasbullitt]

Your list is way off. But that is because you cannot really rank brands that way.

People who do so often rank CMMG lower than they should because CMMG offers some entry level uppers as well as high-end uppers (but they like to pretend the high-end stuff does not exist). But even their most entry level upper rivals those made by Spikes.

CMMG is arguably on par with BCM. The offer the same wide range of quality and their products stack up well against each other. BCM fanboys HATE it when you say that, but it is true. ust one example, if you are looking for an upper high-end specs and a pinned and welded
hider then these two brands are the ones to see. If one brand offers it, you'll find the other one does as well. BCM has a better website, which has resulted in better press from the online crowd. CMMG treats dealers better so you are much more likely to see their products in an actual store. But their products stack up well.

Meanwhile the specs on the S&Ws lates have been incredible. Melonite coated 1-8 barrels as a standard option? That is impressive. So sorry, but your list is wrong.

Regardless, brand name is not nearly as important as the specs. And there is not one specific group of specs that is always better than another. Because it depends on the kind of shooting you will be doing.

Just as an example, let's look at barrel types and the kinds of shooters who need each:

Run and Gun CQB Type Shooters would be best served with a chome-lined 1-7 twist (because if you are paying for the lining take the free upgrade in twist rate) barrel. The chrome lining will last a very long time, and on the rare occasion you chose to pony up for match grade ammo it will be able to stabalize it. If you opt for chrome-moly or stainless steel odds are you will be replacing the barrel soon because your high rate and volume of fire will wear it out.

Precision, Competition and Bench Rest Whore Shooters would be well served by a stainless steel 1-8 barrel. The stainless material is soft and can be precisely machined for perfect or near perfect rifling that results in amazing accuracy and the 1-8 twist stabalizes the heavy match grade ammo. The competition guys, even the run and gunners in that world are the only ones in the group likely to wear them out - but that is the price of their sport. The other shooters will be shooting at such a slow rate of fire that they will not damage the barrel.

Plinking a Couple Times a Year Shooters can totally get buy with just a 1-9 chrome-moly barrel and never wear it out. So just about any entry level upper will serve them more than well.

That doesn't even take into account barrel length, or the countless other things that effect how well suited a rifle will be for a specific style of shooting.

Now lets look at what most people do...

Most guys see the Noveske (for example) Brand name and think, that is the best upper because of who makes it. They don't look at the specs. They don't pay attention as to whether or not the barrel (for example) makes sense for their specific style of shooting. So they end up buying an upper that will wear out way too fast, when the upper on the shelf right next to it made by say S&W (for example) would have lasted them a life time and met their needs much better. All because they read online that one is supposedly a better brand than the other.

Nike makes some really great running shoes. Some that retail over $200. But I am not going to want to wear them when running through the surf on the beach. I want flip-flops for that, even if they aren't made by Nike. Same principle applies to rifles. What you buy should match what you use it for.

What did I do?

I prefer running and gunning and really enjoy taking courses that teach that type of shooting. So my primary AR is 100% meant for that type of shooting. It has a CMMG Upper with 1:7 twist chrome lined 14.7" barrel and perm. attached hider. The reduced length suits me well. The lower started off as CMMG, but I got a little careless when upgrading a trigger guard, and I got a hell of deal on the SPIKES lower so I went with it for now. All but one of the many upgrades are things that serve a purpose. Such as cutting down on the amount gas I breath in, or reducing the number of steps in the manual of arms and speeding things up. The only pure ego accessory is the 4-rail handguards. Plastic MOE handguards would do just as well. But I got a deal on them.

My backup AR was meant to be exactly that, a backup. But I felt guilty building it. So I felt I had to justify it buy giving it a duel purpose...precision shooting. I also bought it one part at time of the period of an entire year. Proving you can build a high-end rifle without breaking the bank. A few of the parts are dealer samples and stuff I got for free - but all are excellent quality. Since I much prefer running and gunning, I insisted on no longer than a 16" barrel. However, since it is a backup and unlikely to be used and abused like my primary, I went ahead and added a stainless 1-8 barrel for the precise rifling that adds to accuracy when shooting match grade ammo. Not something I would have done on my primary, but something I felt was needed to meet the duel purpose requirement of a precision AR. The long extended handguards help protect the barrel when running and gunning and ensure that even if it gets knocked around a little it will maintain zero. So in this case, that choice served a purpose. I am still saving up for a decent optic. They cost as much as the rifle, which was very pricey, I am in no hurry however.

I am not saying I have the best rifles in the world. I am just saying, I thought about more than the brand names. I built each one to meet a specific need that I actually had. I put some actual thought into them. Which is what I recommend doing. Your rifle will probably be very different than mine and everyone elses, because we all have different needs and priorities. That is the great thing about the AR, no shortage of things to do when building one.

I agree with buying the rifle that fits your need but a Noveske barrel will outlast most even in their SS configuration. When you are paying for Noveske, you are paying for a name brand that does not accept anything but excellence and uses top tier parts to get the job done. I categorize Ars in low, middle and top tier and when you settle for the budget brand, you will usually end up spending more money in the end.

[Dhena81]

DD

[spoonman03]

well 1st off, those of you who are focused on creative writing, you are the ones who are too damn picky and need everything to be pretty and concise. guess thats why ur all about the HIGH class things? case and point as far as i'm concerned. As far as the whole car analogy, a $40k ford with a few grand in suspension can keep up with high ends $300k cars, that is if people like you AREN'T behind that round thing. The whole Del-ton vs DD? whatever, if they fixed their problem due to consumer feedback, then good for them and i guess they'll fix all issues with their guns. The whole "del-ton and DD free, which one would u pick?" Really? Like saying if someone offered you a free ford or a free ferrari, i'd take the ferrari, sell it and buy sum stuff! Point is, NO one here can justify their argument of why DD is so much better other than small stuff, barrel, finish? so until you can come out and say hey, del tons fail after so many rounds or they turn into a decepticon, then you just sound stupid to say, "oh, DD is so much better" no reason other than its prettier...so as i take my "CREATIVE" writing class, do sum research to back your stuff up kids. I dont have anything negative to say about DD, never shot 1, i've shot sum top of the line guns that had issues, doesn't mean they are less reliable than others.

[kozumasbullitt]

Yes please take creative writing classes. So lets say hypothetically, someone lays down two AR's in front of you. You can have one for free, one is a Del-Ton and one is a Daniel Defense....Your going to choose the Del-ton?
Personally after perusing the marketplaces, AR prices, forums blah blah blah. Honestly for 90% of people both will run perfectly fine for their occasional range trips or hunting trips. What I have found, the big thing is the resale value. Any Del-ton builds are rather hard to sell and if they do get sold its at quite a dicount. Not many people are interested in a used del-ton. Ive seen Daniel defenses a couple years old only going for like 100 less than msrp and being sold. Look at the calgunner marketplace, watch how long the Delton builds, CMMG builds, Spikes builds, Stag builds sit there. Unless they are giving a hell of a deal they will have a real hard time selling it.

That wont happen with Daniel Defense. Unless they are overpricing there AR.

I must be overpricing my upper because it's not moving and it's DD. I think it is a great time to buy used because prices are down and people are not spending.

[freonr22]

Lmt ftw

[gmcal]

Lmt ftw

cause they cryo their barrels

[freonr22]

Gmcal u r write just had to represent...