Featureless, handstop, and a conundrum

[Randee]

First off since its sunday when I am writing this,

Happy Fathers Day to all the fathers on here!

With that out of the way, I am highly curious what the legality of a handstop is on a featureless build. I took my newly setup featureless build to the range today and found that even though I can shoot it well without some form of weapon control I do feel that I would be better if I had something to brace my hand against.

Obviously a vert grip is out since it is a feature, the AFG has no ruling and thus I refuse to be guinea pig 1, but the handstop doesn't necessarily count as a grip in a traditional sense but I fear because it protrudes from beneath the fore end it will be considered as such by people who do not know CA State law.

I am leaning toward being overly cautious and not doing it but i wanted to get some thoughts on the situation. If anyone can shed any light I would greatly appreciate it!
-Randy

[MrPlink]

handstop is fine

[chead]

So is an AFG but I.. live on the edge *puts on cool shades*

[MrPlink]

So is an AFG but I.. live on the edge *puts on cool shades*

Im of that camp too, but there is a lot of debate, which will probably spark up now that you mention it.

[762.DEFENSE]

Hand stop is perfectly legal. I have a KAC hand stop on my featureless build. I also believe an AFG is g2g, but I don't push the limits personally.

[dieselpower]

this is what they said...

[Fate]

dieselpower quoted the relevant section of the rulemaking documents (978.20 (c) ). The comments section he didn't quote spells it out even more clearly:

978.20(c) Forward Pistol Grip
Comment:
B3.26 1 The revised regulation incorporates a new undefined term 'pistol style grasp'. There are five 'protrusions' commonly found on semiautomatic centerfire rifles that are designed to 'grasp' the firearm. However, none of them can be plausibly thought of as a forward pistol grip. They are: a forward hand guard; a protruding detachable magazine; a hand stop; a sling swivel and sling; and a bipod.


Response:
The Department agrees with the comment. The revised definition specifies a forward pistol grip must be a grip, in addition to having the capacity to be grasped. Because the five protrusions identified in the comment are not grips, they would not meet the Department's definition of a forward pistol grip. The Department believes that reasonable people would not consider the items identified in the comment forward pistol grips.

Handstop is 100% legal on a CA featureless rifle.

The Magpul AFG, isn't given the same "legal cover" in CA as it IS a grip, you can hold it in a pistol style grasp by gripping entire unit and it is located in front of the trigger. Thus it meets the definition of a forward pistol grip under CA law.

[Randee]

Thanks for all the help guys! I appreciate it!

Now the question is whether I go with a Larue stop, Gear Sector, or KAC!

[Inquirer]

Not to threadjack, but this wouldn't be legal for featureless, would it?
Ergo Surestop Grip

Looks more pistol-grippish than the Magpul AFG, and if the AFG is a no-go, then that probably is. But if anybody knows for sure, let me know.
--Inq

[Randee]

Not to threadjack, but this wouldn't be legal would it?
Ergo Surestop Grip

--Inq

Simply from looking at it, I dont think so.

It seems like you could easily turn it around and hold it traditionally as a grip

[762.DEFENSE]

KAC Handstop.

[762.DEFENSE]

Not to threadjack, but this wouldn't be legal for featureless, would it?
Ergo Surestop Grip

Looks more pistol-grippish than the Magpul AFG, and if the AFG is a no-go, then that probably is. But if anybody knows for sure, let me know.
--Inq

It's considered to be a handstop, why wouldn't it be?

[Inquirer]

7.62: Well, it just seems like you could PG the Ergo SureStop way easier than the Magpul AFG and if Fate's analysis is to be given credence, the AFG isn't G2G. So it seems like a shoe-in for a controversial felony. Hence my apprehension.

Also, how is the handstop meant to be used? Are you supposed to have the heel of your hand against it with backwards pressure or the web of your thumb and forefinger against it? I've seen pics where they're on both ways. I'm assuming it's the heel of your hand. And are they of great utility with featureless AKs?

Thanks,

--Inq

[chead]

On a shotgun I assume you want to catch them as you move the pump, on a rifle they act a little like an AFG in that they give you a point of reference for your grip and also a little leverage to pull it back into your shoulder.

[Fate]

7.62: Well, it just seems like you could PG the Ergo SureStop way easier than the Magpul AFG and if Fate's analysis is to be given credence, the AFG isn't G2G. So it seems like a shoe-in for a controversial felony. Hence my apprehension.

The AFG and the Ergo is apples and oranges. The Ergo is a handstop and has legal "cover" (the AFG is a grip and has none). That said, I do think the design of the Ergo might be more prone to cause issues than the LaRue, Gear Sector or KAC. I personally run a KAC on my featureless.

It's important to be legal but smart to be prudent as well. Plus that Ergo hand stop is just damn ugly.