How accurate is the M14 EBR platform?

[GM4spd]

I just don't see the point of investing so much effort to put an old platform on par with a modern one.

This. Pete

[caoboy]

Mine is pretty accurate. Or precise. I get a lot of head shots in MGO. It's my favorite 'sniper rifle' (or not, according to one poster) In that game. The ultimate SR is a bolt action DSR though...it must be the giant 70mm scope they put on the gun that makes it so accurate, or precise, or whatever. If I hit you in the stomach, you are dead in one shot.



(Yes, pure satisfaction was gained in posting this in a serious M14 lover's thread)

[Hoop]

It's obvious to me that you and others don't get it because you want to make this about me and my rifles... that's your problem.

I wasn't trying to be an *** to you, I just want to see some range reports that's all.

I'll just piss off and let you have your M14EBR laughorama thread.

[Hoop]

Mine is pretty accurate. Or precise. I get a lot of head shots in MGO.

The one I have in Fallout New Vegas works wonders on super mutants...

[thai562]

Originally Posted by Omega13device View Post
I just don't see the point of investing so much effort to put an old platform on par with a modern one.

In the world of Firearms, great designed stood the test of time. Example: Rem 700, 1911, Sig pistols, M1 to M14, Browning 50 cal machine gun, and few other.

You have to admit. A 1960s rifle can still do the job in today battle field, is pretty cool.

[brando]

You have to admit. A 1960s rifle can still do the job in today battle field, is pretty cool.

Still, just because some Taliban shooters have been effective with .303 Enfields doesn't mean they're a good choice.

[H2O MAN]

In the world of Firearms, great designed stood the test of time. Example: Rem 700, 1911, Sig pistols, M1 to M14, Browning 50 cal machine gun, and few other.

You have to admit. A 1960s rifle can still do the job in today battle field, is pretty cool.

This /\

[23 Blast]

Wow, I guess all the stories about real US military snipers using semi autos are either made up or, they never got your memo. I'm willing to bet that many of today's US snipers are using SAs ranging from .22cal to .50cal. As far as the m14 platform goes, IIRC, some guy named Carlos Hathcock always had one on hand. In at least one famous incident, it was his weapon of choice. Every mission is different and calls for different tools. Oh, I get it, in your eyes Carlos Hathcock wasn't a sniper, right?

Yup. It's all propaganda. Sheesh.

Yes, US military snipers have used semis from the scoped Garands to the night scoped M1 Carbines to the M21 system to Barrett 50-cals. In addition to his M14, Hathcock also used a scoped M2 machine gun at one time (triggering off one round at a time). I'm sure he'd have used a Barrett had they been available at the time.

My point was that for quite some time now, the US sniper's "default" weapon has been, more often than not, a scoped bolt-action rifle, until recently it was commonly in .308 caliber. Just like a US infantryman's "default" weapon for th last 40+ years has been an M16/M4, despite the fact that they also employ myriad other firearms depending on their mission, from handguns to shotguns to machine guns and grenade launchers.

The DMR concept is relatively new because US doctrine for a long time was that EVERY man was a marksman, unlike Warsaw Pact doctrine where close-in, high volume was the doctrine.

Are you this ornery in your real life?

[Bhobbs]

Still, just because some Taliban shooters have been effective with .303 Enfields doesn't mean they're a good choice.

It's the best choice they have but not for us.


Haven't the M110 rifles been having issues with jams anyways?

[Omega13device]

The firsthand complaints I have read about the M14s in Iraq and Afghanistan have been along the lines of:

- Totally different rifle/manual of arms that they never trained on until they were deployed, and they only got a few days of training once deployed
- Poor ergonomics (location of safety, mag changes)
- Rifle stands out from the rest of the squad
- Spare parts logistics problems
- Armorers lack familiarity with the platform

Note that none of those issues have anything to do with precision. Shooting tiny groups is nice but it's only a small part of what it takes to fight effectively with a gun.

[brando]

The only reason they were put in the fight was to fill a gap that desperately needed to be filled. SR-25s were the only .308WIN semi-autos being fielded in the Army (just USASOC) in late 2001, and that was still very limited numbers. Once both wars were in high gear, the demand for conventional squads to have a semi-auto .308 went through the roof. Busting open the stock of old M14s was the logical solution to rapidly filling that gap. The SR-25s had reliability issues and as much as Knight would like to think they could have rapidly fielded SR-25s Army wide, at the time it wasn't going to happen. And that's unfortunate because the similarities between the M16/M4 and SR-25 would have made the transition fairly easy.

So instead you saw M14s pulled out of packing grease and given to units MOBing. In short order it was determined that the gear soldiers were wearing in 2002 was nothing like what they wore in 1965, so the collapsing stocks and other modifications went out with the next batch. Again, it was all about rapidly filling a vital gap.

As the wars grinded on it was obvious this stop gap solution needed to be filled with a properly fielded weapon and based on needs from downrange, the M110 project started (albeit a bit late).

And that's where things are now. It wasn't that the M14 was some great old rifle that everyone wanted - it was just the only thing that could be rapidly fielded and once it got in the hands of marksmen downrange it needed to be rapidly modernized so modern soldiers with body armor could more effectively use it. Just a stop gap solution.

Yes, NSW has used them for many years, but that too had to do with a lack of options and the fact that they are extremely reliable in arctic conditions.

[Dark Mod]

Wow, I guess all the stories about real US military snipers using semi autos are either made up or, they never got your memo. I'm willing to bet that many of today's US snipers are using SAs ranging from .22cal to .50cal. As far as the m14 platform goes, IIRC, some guy named Carlos Hathcock always had one on hand. In at least one famous incident, it was his weapon of choice. Every mission is different and calls for different tools. Oh, I get it, in your eyes Carlos Hathcock wasn't a sniper, right?

I remember learning about this In bootcamp. IIRC Carlos Hathcock was somewhat of a sniper pioneer as well, many of the things he did differently ended up being adopted by Snipers worldwide. He was the father of the Marine Scout Sniper program, conventional wisdom at the time was bolt actions, but he made shots with an M14 that would blow your mind. I think he also jerry rigged a .50 cal machinegun to fire single shots and took some little kid out on a bicycle from over a mile away

[brando]

FWIW, there's no trick to making an M2 fire single shot - the spade trigger works semi-auto only until you hold or lockdown the bolt latch release. The real trick is making an accurate shot from an open bolt weapon that, when fired, slams a 5lb bolt forward into the chamber.

[Pryde]

I find this whole thread hilarious.

On one side you have brando who has deployed numerous times, carried and fired a M14 overseas and is an extremely skilled long range shooter saying the M14 sucks.

And on the other side you have H20man who has never been in the military, never had any formal training and doesn't even live in CA, his only claim to fame is that he paid Ron Smith a lot of money to have "milspec" Mk14 rifles built.

Hmmmm, who am I gonna trust.....

[707electrician]

I find this whole thread hilarious.

On one side you have brando who has deployed numerous times, carried and fired a M14 overseas and is an extremely skilled long range shooter saying the M14 sucks.

And on the other side you have H20man who has never been in the military, never had any formal training and doesn't even live in CA, his only claim to fame is that he paid Ron Smith a lot of money to have "milspec" Mk14 rifles built.

Hmmmm, who am I gonna trust.....

It seems as though H2Oman spends more time trying to justify spending all that money he spent by making these claims of the M1/M14's great precision on here than he does shooting the thing.

Im not saying that they aren't precision rifles, I don't know enough about them to make that claim, but if you are going to make that claim maybe you should back it up with some targets showing sub-moa groups.