Why 5.45x39 is the best SHTF cartridge

[23 Blast]

^nah, the looters will be looking at our mangled corpses, toting our $3500 tricked out ARs, and laughing as they sling their $200 Mavericks over their shoulders and stuff their Hi-Points in their waistbands. Then they'll say,

"Man, all we wanted was some food and water!"
"Yeah, he'd have been alright if not for that bullet button!"
"Dang - look, he ain't got any food or water, but he's got enough ammo for the Army!"
"Wanna take his gun?"
"Nah - we been killin' plenty folks with the sheeyit we got, let's go."

[BoonieGhost]

Yes, but you have to realize that in CA, we have an overabundance of igneous-origin rocks which, while having greater sectional density than most sedimentary rock, is prone to irregularities and differences in density (even within a small projectile), which renders accuracy iffy at best. Plus you have to deal with the fact that most rocks are shaped inoptimally for flight. Their basic aerodynamics makes a Mini 14 look like a tack driver by comparison.

What you ought to do is go to the local Toys-R-Us, and buy up all the marbles you can get your hands on. Yesterday I bought every damn marble in their store. Not only does it not ring alarm bells at BATFE, the marbles have myriad other uses, including toys for your children (when SHTF, all those PS3's, XboXes, and Nintendo DS will quickly become nothing more than plastic junk), they can also be used as booby-traps in your bunker, a-la Home Alone, and lastly, can be used as a nasty load in your shotgun!

VERY wise & resourceful man...this is one of the best post responses I have ever read! SERIOUSLY!

[defplayr]

By not as sensitive, you mean that it cannot be counted on to fragment from any barrel length, in comparison to the 5.56 which can reliably fragment out of sufficient barrel lengths...thereby making it "sensitive"? If the 5.56 doesn't fragment you'll just get performance on par with the 5.45...

This might stem from the idea that the 5.45x39mm was designed to tumble, not fragment. Thus OP's assertion that the effectiveness of the 5.45 round is not dependent on velocity (barrel length) for its intended effect.

FWIW Wikipedia states that the tumbling is not as effective in wounding as previously believed, so who can really say?

[r6raff]

^nah, the looters will be looking at our mangled corpses, toting our $3500 tricked out ARs, and laughing as they sling their $200 Mavericks over their shoulders and stuff their Hi-Points in their waistbands. Then they'll say,

"Man, all we wanted was some food and water!"
"Yeah, he'd have been alright if not for that bullet button!"
"Dang - look, he ain't got any food or water, but he's got enough ammo for the Army!"
"Wanna take his gun?"
"Nah - we been killin' plenty folks with the sheeyit we got, let's go."

If this is the scenario that is playing out, any idiot still rocking a BB will deserve to get his mangled corpse looted, I for one will twist that little screw on my raddlock, after all in this scenario apparently all civility is lost and the only authority that exists will be enforced from one end of the barrel.

disclaimer: I do not condone creating illegal AWs, this is a fantasy scenario never likely to come to be. Everything short of the apocalypse Book of Eli style, you must always obey the laws, however ridiculous they may be.

[r6raff]

This might stem from the idea that the 5.45x39mm was designed to tumble, not fragment. Thus OP's assertion that the effectiveness of the 5.45 round is not dependent on velocity (barrel length) for its intended effect.

FWIW Wikipedia states that the tumbling is not as effective in wounding as previously believed, so who can really say?

from a physical stand point a tumbling projectile has the potential to inflict more damage to vital organs assuming they are hit, where is a fragmentation round has the potential to do more widespread damage again assuming it fragments correctly and shot placement is half decent. I have no information to back this up, this just whats seems logical in my brain pan. The major downside to 5.56 is that the projectile itself is small, so if fragmentation isnt achieved the entrance and exit wound may not be substantial enough to be fatal, but if fragmentation is achieved... that's a bad day for it's target.

[magsnubby]

...9mm,.308/7.62NATO, 7.72x39(less so), .45ACP, etc are the way to go because all the bodies that will of course be ripe for the picking will have it.

/lulz

What he said.

[lineman66]

If this is the scenario that is playing out, any idiot still rocking a BB will deserve to get his mangled corpse looted, I for one will twist that little screw on my raddlock, after all in this scenario apparently all civility is lost and the only authority that exists will be enforced from one end of the barrel.

disclaimer: I do not condone creating illegal AWs, this is a fantasy scenario never likely to come to be. Everything short of the apocalypse Book of Eli style, you must always obey the laws, however ridiculous they may be.

If the apocalypse is anything like the Book of Eli, I'm stocking up on soap before I get more ammo

Edit: or those nifty KFC wet naps!

[WTSGDYBBR]

I love how people talk about horribly corrosive ammo. A ak47 can handle it. I never clean my AK's they love corrosive ammo .

[Secret]

Just buy those 100 birdshot/$25 federal boxes and cast the shot into slugs. Now you have 100 slugs for 25 bucks

[derwiking]

Field manuals written by various active duty and retired military personnel on the Militia issue have all suggested that using calibers currently in use by law enforcement and military organizations are what you want to go with 100%. Like others have said, there will be plenty of ammunition available in those particular calibers in stock piles nearby. IF you happen to be lucky enough to be the first one to arrive to your local National Guard armory (provided it is abandoned. Tough luck.) what do you you think they will have sitting on their shelves?

[comblock]

A couple dudes from san diego bought a pallet worth of 5.45 back in dec 10. I think theyre trying to sell them still.

Yeah. Its my main plinker. You dont feel so bad after bumpfiring a couple hundred rounds.

[elSquid]

So with my limited knowledge on this subject can someone logically add to or dispute some of this info I provided I don't know yet I'm still learning about this subject.

1) Buy a rifle that you like and want to shoot.
2) Buy a few hundred rounds of a decent softpoint/HP. Shoot most of it. Keep a couple of boxes for a rainy day.
3) Buy gobs of cheap FMJ and do most of your shooting with that. Don't forget to have fun!

That's really all you need to do. For SHTF ( Katrina/big quake/riot ) you are quite unlikely to get into extended gunfights ( or any gunfights at all ) so a couple boxes of expanders is more than you need.

If it's TEOTWAWKI, all of us living in the big, urban areas are pretty well hooped...and ammo and rifle choice won't be in your top 10 list of things to worry about. On the positive side, the chance of a zombie apocalypse is virtually nil, so I wouldn't lose any sleep about it.



-- Michael

[NYY]

Wrist Rocket! there are plenty of rock's

hahaha literally just laughed out loud..

[cmace22]

If you are under the impression that any ammo will be sitting on the shelves during a hypothetical SHTF scenario I think you are mistaken.

Its fair to assume that any ammo you find will be on any poor sole you just shot down and readily available for your taking. At this point you are at the mercy of whatever caliber they have chosen or forced to deploy. They may have picked it off the last person they came across as well.

Stocking up for any given caliber only works if you will not be mobile or have a safe house to return to during your scavenging exploits.

If your are displaced from your home, the best caliber is one that you can carry the most of that gets the job done. 22 is plenty big to ruin anyone day.

[RobGR]

availability? 22lr is the winner!

Ha, yes, agree there.

Or 12 gauge.

Hand catapult, there are stones everywhere!