Discuss: CA Legal and fully functional Home Defense Carbine

[Salty]

Re: breaking the law when SHTF (remove bb, etc): Durring the California Tsunami, panic set in here and people ran for the hills, roads became gridlocked, and fights broke out at gas stations - even some emergency responce personel were assaulted. That's a situation where you may find yourself playing defense, but not so horrible that it warrants breaking the law. Even in a Katrina type situation the law is going to have no sympathy for those who break it. I see that as more of a hinderance than an advantage.

[tomd1584]

seems like a pointless discussion since the end of the world is happening tomorrow.

-Tom

[K-mossberg]

Id say go ca AR (featureless)

[Salty]

seems like a pointless discussion since the end of the world is happening tomorrow.

-Tom

Doh!

[CalTeacher]

You want an AR15, originally chambered in 5.56, then just buy different uppers and a .22lr conversion bolt to start with.

Why do you care about a BB? Its a NON-issue. I have nothing against the grip systems out there, but people who have issue with the BB have no validity to their claims or fact of real world situations to back up their claims...

I can swap my BB for a real magazine release in less time then you can load a 30rd magazine (without Clips). If it EVER came down to that... where hordes of zombie commy soldiers are storming my barbed wire fence line and my m249 SAW gunner has taken a crit hit to the chest...I will remove the BB.

Please don't buy into the "Im a SEAL Ranger Spec-Ops Guy" I need to drop magazines like they do mindset. Its not rational thinking. It takes less than 1 second MORE to swap a magazine with a BB installed. 10rds is more than enough to deal with whatever you TRULY will encounter in REAL LIFE. A few extra 10rd magazines and you can hold off that zombie horde...then find a quick 1 minute to swap the BB for a real release button if needed...

So, what if you drop your BB tool? What if you need to clear a malfunction? What if you fall and you destroy your magazine in the process? Would you want a mag lock on your pistol you keep for home defense? My guess would be that you wouldn't.

I can change magazines faster than you can locate your BB tool.

And if you ever need to actually use your rifle for defensive purposes, you can go ahead and hope you only need 10 rounds. I prefer to have way more than that if I need them. This is the same reason why I carry spare mags for my pistols when I carry them. If I ever need to draw my weapon, I better be ready to also have to change mags if need be.

Additionally, you have no way of prediciting what you will face in real life. This has nothing to do with zombies, aliens, etc.

[Salty]

Heres a thought to ponder, what advantages does a BB equiped carbine have over something with a more "traditional" stock and removable mags?

Also, any tips on where I can find something other than a Mini or M1 Carbine to shoulder and fiddle with within say 50ish miles of Santa Cruz? I tried Big 5, Outdoor World, amd Markleys, all they have is mini's and M1's.

Oh and RE: the SKS suggestion. Ya know, I was thinking about that. I've never played with clips so I have no idea how easy they are to use to reload the mag. I do love the shape and size and the fact that there is no magazine to loose though. I think self contained guns have some real merrit in certain situations. What I do like about mags though is that I can stuff one in my pocket or clip two together. My wife shoots left handed, and I shoot right, so I'm not sure if a pouch with a loaded stripper clip or two in it strapped to the butt stock would work too well for us (never tried it).

[003]

I recently purhased a used, but in new condition Ruger PC 9 carbine. While no longer in production, they are still available for sale on the net. From my perspective, they are a first rate home defense carbine. (9mm +P+ out of an 18 inch barrel will certainly get the attention of any bad guy that comes around. Light, handy and no recoil, with excellent 100 yard energy and accuracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Police_Carbine

[762.DEFENSE]

Featureless AK-47, AK-47, Featureless AR, M-1 Carbine, or Saiga in either 7.62x39, 5.56x45 etc..

[dieselpower]

So, what if you drop your BB tool? What if you need to clear a malfunction? What if you fall and you destroy your magazine in the process? Would you want a mag lock on your pistol you keep for home defense? My guess would be that you wouldn't.

I can change magazines faster than you can locate your BB tool.

And if you ever need to actually use your rifle for defensive purposes, you can go ahead and hope you only need 10 rounds. I prefer to have way more than that if I need them. This is the same reason why I carry spare mags for my pistols when I carry them. If I ever need to draw my weapon, I better be ready to also have to change mags if need be.

Additionally, you have no way of prediciting what you will face in real life. This has nothing to do with zombies, aliens, etc.

no, you can't...my BB tool is on every magazine I own. so my hand will hit my tool about the same time your finger hits the button....

some peoples BB tool is on the end of their finger or glove....

stop trying to mock something you dont have to make yourself feel better about YOUR choice.

There is nothing wrong with featurless...whats wrong is people with featurless trying to mock BBs.... just stop the bashing.

/thread-jack

[IPSICK]

Just read the OP's requirements and I don't see why a semi-auto shotgun w/ 10-round tube setup for use with speed loaders would not work.

[ZombieTactics]

A possible good choice:

[motogunner356]

just ask yourself wwcld: what would clind eastwood do?

drop a clip in an m1 and scowl in the most grizzled face saying get off my lawn.

for another suggestion i would maybe look into a garand. ammo is very common not to mention powerful and you can get bandoliers for them . bb's are a non factor, reloading after a little training can be very quick.

but with whatever gun you settle on training is the key. whether you have a shotgun pistol ar ak or a red rider lever action bb rifle you need to be compentent in operating it.

[jrr]

Ok, my .02c...
M1 Carbine all the way. My reasons:

1. a .30 carbine is roughly equal to a .357 magnum in lbs/ft of energy on target. Nobody would ever argue that a .357 magnum is underpowered. It isn't a full power rifle cartridge, but it isn't supposed to be.
2. Based on the above, the .30 carbine has a huge advantage over a full power rifle round inside a house... less penetration. A .30 carbine will go through a couple walls of standard sheetrock. A .223 can conceivably go through ten or twelve. Google "box of truth" and check some real world testing on penetration of various calibers.
3. Easy to handle, low recoil, fast follow up shots. An AR in .223 has light recoil too. But will have more flash and noise, which in a HD scenario with no ear protection is a big deal. An M1 carbine weighs slightly less than an AR, and is about the same overall length. Also, the carbine is using the stock which it was designed to use, unlike an AR with a Hammerhead or AK with a grip fin. I have a hammerhead AR, and its fine for the range... but not as comfortale as the carbine.
4. Reliability. Ok, this one varies. A good GI shooter is extremley reliable, unless you are using grease rated to 20 degrees in the Korean winter at -15 degrees. Some of the commercial copies, especially late Iver Johnson and Universal ones, are not as reliable. Fortunately a good mixed parts GI carbine can be had on gunbroker for around $600.
6. its FUN! My carbine with an Aimpoint M2 on an Ultimak rail is a blast! I can pop the steel swingers at Angeles ranges from fifty to a hundred and not miss. Its just a pleasure to shoot.
7. It isn't "tactical". Even with the Aimpoint, it still looks "traditional" with its wood stock. I'd rather be in front of a jury (which is likely to happen in a HD shooting) with a traditional looking gun like the carbine than with my scary black AR with its big ol 30 round mags sticking out.

Ok, so my .02 for what its worth. ( .02c maybe? lol)

Whichever you get, practice! Take classes, go to the range, do some competition. Any gun is worthless if you aren't proficient, and any gun will do if you know what you're doing.

[comblock]

No bullet button means the list is short to begin with.

Mini14/30
Su16
Saiga
Benelli mr1
M1 carbine

M1 carbine ammo is not as common as 5.56 or 7.62x39.

All are fun to shoot and are accurate enough to 100 yds. Su16 is good for bug out due to its light weight and foldability/concealability but might be less durable long term and some don't like the std irons. Has built-in rail for red dot or other optic.

Mini or saiga are pretty rugged and reliable and probably similar accuracy. Saiga has least options for optics. Mini ranch or newer models have rings but will likely need aftermarket mounts for some red dot / reflex / acog style optics.

Mr1 is newest on the market, least reliability history and probably most expensive.

Remington had a pump action carbine similar to an 870 and there are lever action carbines that might be a good option if you already have a wheel gun in .357.

Ruger also used to make a carbine in .44 magnum and the also had pistol caliber carbines in .40sw or 9mm. None are currently in production but do pop up on the used market from time to time.
Just some thoughts

keltec
sks

bigger rounds
m1a
saiga .308
fn49
garand

options abound

[IPSICK]

saiga 12ga

I forgot about Saiga but why not in 12ga?