Is this an accurate statement (concerning AR15 pistols)

[MacDime]

I have always been under the impression that a pistol lower is different than a rifle lower. I thought that to assemble a pistol, the lower must be specific for pistol. I came across this article and am looking for someone to validate, is what is being said correct?

Here goes:

http://www.tacticalmachining.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=74

[Baconator]

There is no physical difference. A pistol lower must have been only a pistol because once a rifle it's always a rifle.

[Nathan Krynn]

They are the exact same lowers.

Think about it have you ever seen a handgun with the words pistol on it?

The S&W 360 and the colt series 80 commander I have on me right now have nothing that is engraved pistol.

A BATFE agent once told me that you engrave a lower with the word banana it doesn't make it a banana does it. It was the strangest thing but makes sense, sort of. Matter fact he only reason we do pistol marked lowers is because of this perception you need to have it on there, you don't but people want it.

The difference is the fact a pistol cant have a stock attached to the buffer tube.

However in CA you run into issues that have been discussed many times here in calguns. It is better for you to do an 80% then assemble a pistol from a stripped lower.

BTW I wrote that on my forum.

[limitdown]

Dimensionally, the lowers are the exact same and a pistol lower does NOT need to be marked as a pistol lower.

However, there are some very Cali-specific rules that are not mentioned in the tacticalmachining.com thread.

For non-LEO's, there are essentially only 2 ways to get an AR pistol.
1. A private party transfer of a lower that has already been registered as a "handgun"
2. Build you own from an 80%

The reason you can't just buy a stripped lower and build an AR pistol from it is that in Cali, the lower can only be DROS'd either as a rifle or a handgun. If you want to DROS it as a handgun, then it must be on the DOJ's "safe" list.

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

This is Cali-specific

When you build you own from an 80%, you don't legally need to mark it, until you are actually going to sell the gun.

In either case, you can never put a stock on it or else you will turn it into a rifle. Then if you remove the stock, you're manufacturing a short barrel rifle (SBR).

[MacDime]

Dimensionally, the lowers are the exact same and a pistol lower does NOT need to be marked as a pistol lower.

However, there are some very Cali-specific rules that are not mentioned in the tacticalmachining.com thread.

For non-LEO's, there are essentially only 2 ways to get an AR pistol.
1. A private party transfer of a lower that has already been registered as a "handgun"
2. Build you own from an 80%

The reason you can't just buy a stripped lower and build an AR pistol from it is that in Cali, the lower can only be DROS'd either as a rifle or a handgun. If you want to DROS it as a handgun, then it must be on the DOJ's "safe" list.

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

This is Cali-specific

When you build you own from an 80%, you don't legally need to mark it, until you are actually going to sell the gun.

In either case, you can never put a stock on it or else you will turn it into a rifle. Then if you remove the stock, you're manufacturing a short barrel rifle (SBR).

How does this work http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ghlight=pistol

so here is a spikes lower which is a pistol. I have looked on the DOJ list and see nothing about Spikes. Please forgive my ignorance. I really appreciate all the information guys.

[Baconator]

How does this work http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ghlight=pistol

so here is a spikes lower which is a pistol. I have looked on the DOJ list and see nothing about Spikes. Please forgive my ignorance. I really appreciate all the information guys.

That is a ftf private party transfer, a sale is when you buy something from an ffl. You can transfer guns not on the roster.

[Nathan Krynn]

When you import a firearm into the state of CA (this is for people like spikes or me)you have to fill out this for if it is a pistol or rifle. There is not a selection for other like a 4473. Since it is not a complete single shot pistol is is not a pistol.

Also there is the DROS which other will know more about as I am in FL.

[dieselpower]

With all AR15s you either build them or buy them assembled from someone else. The AR15 has the distinction of being the only gun in the world where more are homemade than at a factory. No one owns the right to say, "I am the only manufacturer"

The AR15 can be assembled into 5 categories.
Rifle
Carbine
Pistol
Shotgun
Crossbow

The lower receiver has a set of serial numbers. Once that piece is bought new from an FFL, it must be designated in one of three ways. That designation is what it is forever unless more paperwork is filed with the ATF.
These three designations are; (there are more descriptive ways identify the 3 types, please look at the ATF website for them)
Rifle (longarm)
Shotgun (smoothbore)
Pistol (single handed firing)

In some states, you must always use an FFL to transfer ownership of a firearm. Some states I can simply give you a firearm and no one knows but you and I and no one need know...its like giving you a hammer or a toaster oven.

In some states the category of pistol has more requirements. This is where the AR15 Pistol gets tricky. Since the AR15 lower receiver is the same, when you build a pistol out of it, the receiver must;
1) have been first bought as a pistol,
AND
2) in certain states registered as a pistol,
AND
3) in California it must also be in a certain way to either qualify it as being on a list of safe guns OR be exempt from that list
AND
4) be configured NOT as an AW.

So your AR15 pistol in CA was either made proper by someone else who jumped through the hoops, or you jump through the hoops as you build it.

Even though its child's play building an AR15 in any form...sometimes its best to leave it to the people who know all the hoops and do it the right way.

When you buy your complete working AR15 pistol from a FFL in CA, you can then reconfigure it to shoot semiautomatic and hold more than 1 round. You must still make sure the firearm is NOT an AW.

[limitdown]

The Cali DROS system is in addition to the Federal 4473.

The 4473 has an "other" box, but the Cali DROS only has 2 boxes, Rifle or a Handgun. If you want to transfer a handgun, then it must be on the Cali "Roster".

As I mentioned above, the 1st method of buying an existing pistol is using a Private Party Transfer (PPT). This is a purchase from a non-dealer (non-FFL). The problem is that you need to find somebody who wants to PPT.

[SJgunguy24]

The Cali DROS system is in addition to the Federal 4473.

The 4473 has an "other" box, but the Cali DROS only has 2 boxes, Rifle or a Handgun. If you want to transfer a handgun, then it must be on the Cali "Roster".

As I mentioned above, the 1st method of buying an existing pistol is using a Private Party Transfer (PPT). This is a purchase from a non-dealer (non-FFL). The problem is that you need to find somebody who wants to PPT.

Dieselpower noted that exepmtions are used to comply with state law. That is what the large majority of AR pistols are transferred as, roster exempt single shot pistols.

[MacDime]

Dieselpower noted that exepmtions are used to comply with state law. That is what the large majority of AR pistols are transferred as, roster exempt single shot pistols.

so the roster exempt part is only for the transfer? once the transfer has taken the gun goes back to its previous config?

[dieselpower]

so the roster exempt part is only for the transfer? once the transfer has taken the gun goes back to its previous config?

you can do anything you want as long as you do not violate NFA law. The state of CA has no law stopping you from turning a single shot into a semiautomatic.

[dieselpower]

now putting as stock on it MIGHT be called re-designing it into a rifle..inwhich case the ATF and/or DoJ could say its NOW a rifle with a short barrel.

[TacDriver5five6]

As far as technical specifications are concerned, the 2 lowers are interchangeable.

There are no differences at all.

[motorwerks]

I have always wondered what would happen if you had an AR pistol and you simply placed the buffer against your shoulder and looked through your sights like a rifle..... could a LEO consider that a "stock" and nail you for SBR? These damn things are such a gray area that I'm honestly a little cared of them but I want one.