Constructive Possession Question

[TurboChrisB]

Really? Every 2 weeks? I've been on this forum for a year. I've NOT seen this question posed with an answer that's more than opinion and conjecture.

I may be missing something, but is there a shortage of AR parts kits? Why does this issue come up every two weeks?

[rero360]

Here is my question:

Why would you want to put an M16 fire control group in an AR when there are so many AR trigger groups out there that are much better than the M16 trigger group? I would love to be able to put my RRA trigger group into my issue M4, at the very least for qualification days

[dieselpower]

Here is my question:

Why would you want to put an M16 fire control group in an AR when there are so many AR trigger groups out there that are much better than the M16 trigger group? I would love to be able to put my RRA trigger group into my issue M4, at the very least for qualification days

He's not asking why. He is stating since he couldnt find the answer in terms he understands, and since no one he has talked to can give him a link...then he thinks its all bunk myth....

Every single website? Can you post a link? If it's so prolifically stated...why haven't I seen it? Jeezzz, you really don't get it do you? Why don't you just part ways with this thread. You apparently have no clue what I'm asking or why. Go on. You're not helped here.

Please name the websites. I will log onto my accounts...since i have like 120 different accounts on as many websites, and I will ask this.... "is it illegal to put M16 FCG parts in an AR15". I bet you 99.9% of the answers will be... "yes, if the firearm double fires for a firearms inspector AND has machine gun parts in it..its illegal."

[dieselpower]

You are failing to see the fail in your own question...

No ONE can tell me there is no breathable air on the moon. I have searched and searched and searched...no links. No I haven't called NASA, No I haven't talked to a Scientist. No One on 4-chan.com can prove to me there isn't air and since no one has ever tried to take a breath on the moon, I conclude its possible there is air on the moon.

I am no help to you because, like so many others here, you don't like reality tossed in your face.

[dieselpower]

when I'd visit I had a AR with M16 bolt, trigger group and selector and it was cool to swap it into my AR and shoot full auto. That weapon is long gone....but until joining Calguns I'd never heard of constructive possession.

now thats a sig line...

[TurboChrisB]

Don't try to spin what I've said into something I didn't. And don't speak for me. You've FAILED to understand what I'm trying to achieve here. It's simple really. Read the original post. Others understood it. Obviously you don't.

He is stating since he couldnt find the answer in terms he understands, and since no one he has talked to can give him a link...then he thinks its all bunk myth....

[echoarms]

Chris, I feel you. It really does seem like most people cut and paste what other people write. A machine gun is a firearm that will fire 2 or more rounds with a single pull of the trigger. I agree that logically it does not follow that installing non functioning M16 parts makes it illegal. Nor have I seen a documented case.

I think the dangerous territory lies in that with an M16 FCG, it might be possible to have hammer follow which would touch off a second round making it a MG per ATF regs. That being said, a standard AR semi FCG with no disconnector would likely achieve the same thing.

PS: diesel makes me laugh cause I can just picture him punishing his keyboard trying to make you say he's right.

[TurboChrisB]

Are you really so dense as to think that, that is my question? Seriously?

SERIOUSLY?

You think I've asked if it's illegal if a gun fires full auto???

Oh my god, I'm done responding to you. I give up.

"is it illegal to put M16 FCG parts in an AR15". I bet you 99.9% of the answers will be... "yes, if the firearm double fires for a firearms inspector AND has machine gun parts in it..its illegal."

[Californio]

Don't try to spin what I've said into something I didn't. And don't speak for me. You've FAILED to understand what I'm trying to achieve here. It's simple really. Read the original post. Others understood it. Obviously you don't.

PM (topgun7) he is a LEO that reviews weapons for "full auto status", an Expert that advises the Prosecutor on such cases.

I am sure he will tell you exactly what dieselpower is trying to tell you.

[TurboChrisB]

I agree with the comment on dangerous territory. Obviously having a 3 position selector would likely get you a ride in a police car any day of the week. But I had always assumed that since you will NOT be able to shoot full auto by just installing a selector and trigger group that ultimately you would be vindicated. Now before today I had never heard that installing those parts "Might" cause hammer follow. I'd like to hear more about whether that is truly the case or not.

Chris, I feel you. It really does seem like most people cut and paste what other people write. A machine gun is a firearm that will fire 2 or more rounds with a single pull of the trigger. I agree that logically it does not follow that installing non functioning M16 parts makes it illegal. Nor have I seen a documented case.

I think the dangerous territory lies in that with an M16 FCG, it might be possible to have hammer follow which would touch off a second round making it a MG per ATF regs. That being said, a standard AR semi FCG with no disconnector would likely achieve the same thing.

PS: diesel makes me laugh cause I can just picture him punishing his keyboard trying to make you say he's right.

[TurboChrisB]

THANKS! That's the kind of info I was looking for. First hand knowledge of the legalities concerning that kind of scenerio. I'll PM him and post what he says.

PM (topgun7) he is a LEO that reviews weapons for "full auto status", an Expert that advises the Prosecutor on such cases.

I am sure he will tell you exactly what dieselpower is trying to tell you.

[AJAX22]

an M16 FCG installed into an AR15 WILL cause hammer follow in the 3rd position..

If a .22LR conversion or pistol cal upper is installed it will function quite well in full auto.

[TurboChrisB]

Really? Now THAT I did not know. As I posted earlier, 20 years ago I had an AR with M16 bolt, trigger and selector. It certainly did not fire bursts in the full auto position without a DIAS in it. So can I assume that it must be a random, unpredictable type of thing? Not like I tried it 1000 times when I had it...but I assure you I'd remember had it ever happened.

[dieselpower]

Post #15 again...This was my reply to your quote. once again...you didn't like my answer because it tossed the real world into your fantasy. Not my problem. Understand this and I say it every week seems like.... I am not here to make friends, I am here to advise other California gun owners about the real world. I see far too many fantasy land shooters who own real firearms. If you don't want real, grounded in truth, in your face logic...place me on ignore..becuase thats all you will see me post. I dont know what the other guy meant with the keyboard comment... I am simply trying to get you to see the light of reason I have no emotional investment when I post.

Originally Posted by TurboChrisB
Thanks, but "I think" doesn't cut it. I think NOBODY has been convicted of anything because they had M16 parts (Again...sans LL or DIAS or a sear hole) in there AR15. But I'm looking for FACTS not conjecture, please. On its face it would NOT be illegal. So my question from my original post still stands.

bold added


So, your opinion that it is NOT illegal is based on what? because no one who saw and then responded to you post here could give you a link to a legal case .

So let me get this straight... two mall ninjas, a couple ex-serviceman, a couple high school kids and several gun nuts who shoot long range bolt guns are the be-all end-all legal team in your mind and since they cant prove the BATFE has laws against select-fire parts in semiauto firearm...you say its not illegal...

dude...

1) Ownership of a NFA controlled part is only legal with BATFE permission after filling out the proper paperwork and paying the tax. (DIAS, Auto sear assembly, 3rd hole lower, Silencer)

2) Some parts are legal to own by themselves, but having a group of parts that turns a semiauto firearm into a machine gun is against NFA/local laws. (Trigger, hammer, disconnector...)

3) Some parts are common in an industry and if used in a way that converts a semiauto firearm into a machine gun is against NFA/ local laws. (shoestring, rubberband, trigger activator...)

4) Some parts are legal to own, EXCEPT when you also have in your possession a semiautomatic firearm, and those parts can be used to convert it into a machine gun...even if the parts are not BEING used at that time. (registered M16 + an AR15..you can not then own a second set of select fire parts. You must first sell the AR15 to legally store spare/extra parts for your legally owned M16)

If you dont believe any of this...hire a lawyer to explain it to you. They will say the same thing. Just because the few of us responding to you can not link to a case, doesnt mean its really legal to own a select fire FCG.

[echoarms]

Really? Now THAT I did not know. As I posted earlier, 20 years ago I had an AR with M16 bolt, trigger and selector. It certainly did not fire bursts in the full auto position without a DIAS in it. So can I assume that it must be a random, unpredictable type of thing? Not like I tried it 1000 times when I had it...but I assure you I'd remember had it ever happened.

I suspect it'd take balancing the gas port and or buffer assembly to match a certain ammo type so the system timed itself correctly. Soft primers would help as well.