NFA Rules & Barrel Length--a question.

[dcbiii]

Hey guys,

I've done some searching, and all the threads I can find reference that possession of a 14.5" Upper is legal, so long as a "permanently affixed" flash hider\muzzle device is attached to bring the total barrel length over 16".

There have been several mentions of this upper:

http://www.botachtactical.com/lmtco14uprea.html

(Please refrain from turning this into a "Botach kidnapped my first-born!!" thread).

A friend of mine is considering starting a build, and this seems like an absolutely stellar deal. Another friend has one these builds, and after measuring it, the barrel's overall length is 16"--from the feedramps to the end of the flash hider. The LMT\A2 Flash-Hider does appear to be permanently affixed. (Unless someone can comment on this, does LMT do this from the factory?)

Botach (of course) has slathered on the "ALL NFA rules APPLY!!", but the upper seems to be legal (provided that the FH is permanently affixed).

Anyone have experience with this?

[Nathan Krynn]

They left that out in the 2010 BATFE handbook so technically by the stroke of a pen (by one of the two self governing agencies in the country no less), and not a law all 14.5" barrels are NFA. With out a grandfather clause either so there are technically millions of felons out there.

It used to be in the handbook prior to 2010.

Realistically I never foresee someone being charged on this but I have seen weirder things. Someone would need to be charged with it then that would be the case law, but that would start a $%&# storm as millions of us will be felons.

[-hanko]

I've done some searching, and all the threads I can find reference that possession of a 14.5" Upper is legal, so long as a "permanently affixed" flash hider\muzzle device is attached to bring the total barrel length over 16".

There have been several mentions of this upper:

http://www.botachtactical.com/lmtco14uprea.html

(Please refrain from turning this into a "Botach kidnapped my first-born!!" thread).

A friend of mine is considering starting a build, and this seems like an absolutely stellar deal. Another friend has one these builds, and after measuring it, the barrel's overall length is 16"--from the feedramps to the end of the flash hider. The LMT\A2 Flash-Hider does appear to be permanently affixed. (Unless someone can comment on this, does LMT do this from the factory?)

Botach (of course) has slathered on the "ALL NFA rules APPLY!!", but the upper seems to be legal (provided that the FH is permanently affixed).

Anyone have experience with this?

Botach didn't kidnap my first born, otoh their customer service may have some issues, sometimes.

Barrel length is measured from the end of the barrel (or the end of the muzzle device when it's permanently installed) to the front face of the bolt...drop a wooden dowel down the bore, mark it even with the front end of the barrel or muzzle device, remove it and measure. Measurement from the feed ramp is irrelevant.

Call lmt and ask if the muzzle device is permanently attached.

-hanko

[CSACANNONEER]

To make a legal non SBR rifle with a 14.5" barrel, a muzzle device of some sort must be permanently affixed to the barrel. There is no need for LMT or anyone else to permanently affix a FH or other muzzle devise so, many manufacturers don't do it. That gives the buyer the option of using whatever type of barrel extention or muzzle device they choose or the ability to use the upper on a SBR or MG without having to permanently attach anything.

[Omega13device]

hen they write "all NFA rules apply" that means it's an NFA item, or in other words, the flash hider is not permanently attached. If your friend wants it he could have it shipped directly to a gunsmith who can legally possess SBRs and have them perm-attach a flash hider.

LMT does not perm-attach flash hiders from the factory.

Btw a standard A2 FH isn't long enough to get you to 16".

[PolishMike]

Remember about constructive possession.

Do not have a <16" barreled upper and a lower that can accept it.

[Jeffy]

LMT does not permanently attach the FH from the factory. Also it would have to be an extended A2 and not a standard A2. I'd be wary if your 'other' friend has a 14.5 LMT with the FH not fixed.

It's a good deal BUT I'd sell the handguard.

[dieselpower]

14.5-Inch 1/7 Twist Chrome Lined Bbl.
CAA X6, 6 Rail System
Charging Handle
LMT Complete Full-Auto Bolt And Bolt Carrier.
Removable LMT Rear Sight


all for $499.95.

Wait I have a bridge in Lower Manhatten I can sell you too....

[dcbiii]

Remember about constructive possession.

Do not have a <16" barreled upper and a lower that can accept it.

He doesn't own a lower at all, because of this reason. Thanks for keeping an eye out

I'd be wary if your 'other' friend has a 14.5 LMT with the FH not fixed.

This is the same acquaintance that doesn't think that he's required to have a bullet button on his lower. He's special.

14.5-Inch 1/7 Twist Chrome Lined Bbl.
CAA X6, 6 Rail System
Charging Handle
LMT Complete Full-Auto Bolt And Bolt Carrier.
Removable LMT Rear Sight


all for $499.95.

Wait I have a bridge in Lower Manhatten I can sell you too....

The acquaintance I mentioned above already has his, and it has all the LMT markings on the barrel and receiver. The charging handle is generic (but nicer than the standard style), and the CAA X6 is surprisingly solid considering it's generally a "lowest common denominator" brand.

When you consider that the bolt, charging handle, barrel, and rear sight all add up to more than the purchase price....and it's LMT....it's pretty hard to beat.

[CSACANNONEER]

Remember about constructive possession.

Do not have a <16" barreled upper and a lower that can accept it.

As long as one owns a virgin stripped lower, they are fine. Since a stripped lower can be built into a pistol with a 14.5" barrel. Yes, even a stripped lower DROSed in Ca as a rifle can be built into a pistol under federal law. So, as far as constructive possession on a federal level goes, a stripped virgin lower or a pictol lower is all one needs. As far as contructive possession under Ca law goes, a stripped lower DROSed as a long gun might or might not be legal to build into a handgun in Ca.