First timer evil black gun.

[hemna]

Howdy,
I'm building my first evil black gun. I decided to take the plunge and purchased a stripped lower from a gun shop here in Rocklin (TDS). I'm taking a class this Sunday at the store to build the lower. I'm still trying to decide on the upper for it though. In doing my research there seems to be folks on either side of the different features (piston or not, etc...). I'm leaning towards getting an Adams Arms carbine complete upper.

I found a decent price here...

http://store.a51tactical.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_67_80&products_id=4192

I've heard that AA had a problem with carrier tilt in their first version of the piston system, but this has since been resolved with a single piece carrier with some skiis.

Does anyone have experience with this upper? I've been told that POF makes the "best" upper (in their opinion), but it seems if you talk to 10 people you'll get 10 different opinions. I can't spend $1k on an upper. That's just out of control (for my budget). The Adams Arms price in that url seems to be about my max in terms of budget.

Any recommendations for a completed gas piston upper that doesn't have carrier tilt issues at $874 or less?

Thanks,
Walt

[themailman]

POF does not make the best upper. Why not go with a simple DI upper from Stag, SW, BCM, DD, or CMMG since this is your first? Dont take a class on assembling a lower, just watch the brownells vids and do it. Damn, 874 could build a complete and quality DI gun.

[dieselpower]

POF does not make the best upper. Why not go with a simple DI upper from Stag, SW, BCM, DD, or CMMG since this is your first? Dont take a class on assembling a lower, just watch the brownells vids and do it. Damn, 874 could build a complete and quality DI gun.

agreed.

we are not pushing you away from piston. if thats what you want, I would say go for it. How much is this class and do they guarantee a proper build..ie who is in the class, do they provide all tools, do they provide extra small parts...blah blah blah ? ? ?

[hemna]

The class is $25. They have all the tools and walk you through the build. I'm in the 10 day waiting period and can't take the lower home until the 14th, but I can build the lower at the shop in the class. I figured this would be a good way to have someone watch over me while I build it myself. The videos are good online, but not if I run into issues...since this is my first build. My second build, assuming my wife doesn't shoot me with my first build, I'll do myself.

I suppose I could do a cheaper DI build, but the extra cleaning sounds like a PITA.

[Nathan Krynn]

Yeah stick to an American owned company.

You will always get a ton of opinions from everyone on AR parts and configurations.

Personally I see no advantage for piston (I am a traditionalist, heck I still carry a 1911 and my back up is a s&w 360, I cant handle those new fangeled striker fired.) but if you want one go for it. The AR-15 is adult lincoln logs, build it how you want it. A lot of people like the piston and they have their reasons. (not trying to get the DI VS piston going here)

You might be better off though buying your first upper complete VS building it.

If I were to go piston then Addax Tactical would be my choice, they are great people and stand behind their work.

[October]

Does our military currently use POF or DI? Or is it a bit of both?

[Nathan Krynn]

Our military does not use anything POF (unless a Special Operations unit purchased one, but I doubt it).

The standard M4, M16A2, and M16A4 are all DI. They are assembled by Colt and FN. Some parts are made by them but the majority are subcontracted out.

Special Operations uses what ever they want, unit by unit, mission by mission, including some piston.

[Predator]

*Sigh* First off I don't know about "best" as that is a subjective term, but I own a POF and love it. If its not in your price range then that's the end of that one though. However if you wanted to drop that much money on an upper, I've had nothing but good experiences with mine. The NP3 treatment that they put on their internals makes cleaning super easy.

[Predator]

I think October meant to ask whether the military uses Piston vs DI ?

[Nathan Krynn]

It is not that I think their stuff is that bad. It's that I would rather not give my money to Pakistan, I think our government gives them enough of it all ready.

Companies like Addax (if you want piston) are American owned and operated and they stand behind their product.

[PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE]

Always a tough situation of getting the right equipment for your 1st time out, I'm sure you'll get alot of good suggestions that you can't go wrong with, including DIY and saving yourself some coin. You won't be going wrong with POF or AA (IMO), and also I think taking class for putting together the lower is a great idea. Their's tons of vids on just about everything and anything, but a good armorers class with someone looking over your shoulder has it's advantages. Goodluck, let us know how the class went, as well as what you've decided to go with

[Uriah02]

It is not that I think their stuff is that bad. It's that I would rather not give my money to Pakistan, I think our government gives them enough of it all ready.

Companies like Addax (if you want piston) are American owned and operated and they stand behind their product.

Are you confusing POF to be Pakistani Ordnance Factory compared to Patriot Arms Factory?

[Nathan Krynn]

POF-USA is the American division (importer) of Pakistani Ordnance Factory (POF). They get their parts from Pakistani Ordnance Factory and assemble them here.

[hemna]

hrmm

Thanks Nathan. I appreciate the advice. I didn't want to build an upper myself for my first EBG. If that info about POF is true, then POF is out for sure for me. I'd rather give my hard earned cash to an American Co.

I guess the real decision is do I want to fork over the extra cash to get the AA piston complete upper or go with a cheaper gas block only system....

hrmm...dang I don't know.

Thanks for the thoughts though guys.

[hemna]

FWIW,
POF-USA's site says "Copyright 2010 POF-USA Patriot Ordnance Factory, Inc."

http://www.pof-usa.com/main.htm