"Assault Rifle" accuracy

[kayaker]

I had an older model Ruger Ranch rifle. I tried to like it for years, it just wasn't accurate enough to hold my interest. I hear people talk about how reliable their SKS/Ak47 etc. is but I don't hear much about accuracy. When I see people shooting them at the range I usually see groups that I wouldn't accept from a handgun. Honestly, is it possible to get a respectably accurate (<3" MOA) rifle without buying a new Ruger or AR?

[Bigtwin]

I am able to get about 3" average from my Saiga ak47 16" bbl in 7.62x39, when I do my part I can even get 2" groupings and it shoots where I point it. Those groupings do begin to open up a bit when the barrel gets hot though!

[jtmkinsd]

I had an older model Ruger Ranch rifle. I tried to like it for years, it just wasn't accurate enough to hold my interest. I hear people talk about how reliable their SKS/Ak47 etc. is but I don't hear much about accuracy. When I see people shooting them at the range I usually see groups that I wouldn't accept from a handgun. Honestly, is it possible to get a respectably accurate (<3" MOA) rifle without buying a new Ruger or AR?

The stock M-16 is capable of 3-4 inch MOA out of the factory...to get more accuracy on that platform, you can add a chrome moly barrel, get a high cost FCG, weight it properly...yadda yadda yadda. Your ruger is a "ranch rifle"...it's not designed to be that accurate at distance. If you really want high accuracy "out-of-the-box" you should probably go bolt action.

[Vtec44]

The stock M-16 is capable of 3-4 inch

I believe standard for M193 5.56 is under 2 MOA but not the gun itself. I can get about 1 MOA with my 16" AR15 using PMC .223 with standard trigger. As far as AK, I've never mine. However, a lot of AK ammo are cheap so that may contribute to the problem.

[jtmkinsd]

I believe standard for M193 5.56 is under 2 MOA but not the gun itself. I can get about 1 MOA with my 16" AR15 using PMC .223 with standard trigger. As far as AK, I've never mine. However, a lot of AK ammo are cheap so that may contribute to the problem.

I'd be surprised at that kind of accuracy with a stock AR...no matter what kind of ammo you're using (ammo would have been covered under the "yadda yadda yadda category in my post...lol) I'm assuming that's at 100 yards? under match conditions? Are you at a certain skill level (sharpshooter, expert)?

[dieselpower]

I am able to get about 3" average from my Saiga ak47 16" bbl in 7.62x39, when I do my part I can even get 2" groupings and it shoots where I point it. Those groupings do begin to open up a bit when the barrel gets hot though!

@ what range are you getting 3" and 2" out of an Saiga 16".

[kayaker]

I've got good bolt actions

I like the idea of a quick handling carbine but I expect reasonable accuracy. Maybe I'll eventually spend the $ to get an AR. I really don't care for the look of an EBR though.

[jtmkinsd]

I like the idea of a quick handling carbine but I expect reasonable accuracy. Maybe I'll eventually spend the $ to get an AR. I really don't care for the look of an EBR though.

Everything hinges on your interpretation of that word

[Vtec44]

I'd be surprised at that kind of accuracy with a stock AR...no matter what kind of ammo you're using (ammo would have been covered under the "yadda yadda yadda category in my post...lol) I'm assuming that's at 100 yards? under match conditions? Are you at a certain skill level (sharpshooter, expert)?

Standard PMC Bronze .223 that you get at Walmart and other places. I get about the same using Federal .223 60gr Nosler Vital Shok.

I posted a thread regarding this a while back. Stock AR15 even in 16" is VERY capable. MOA is measured at every 100 yards so yes I'm talking about 100 yards, after my scope was zeroed in. I'm just your average shooter.

Edit: The upper is 16" mid-length RRA chrome-lined heavy barrel. The trigger is standard DPMS. Scope is Burris Timberline 3x9x32., wind was about 10-15mph (right to left).

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=344096

[Sheepdog1968]

As someone mentioned above, for accuracy I'd go w a bolt action. For a semiauto, I'm happy with 3 or 4 moa. Bolt actions for Remington, Winchester, Savage typically provide MOA to subMOA out of the box. Also, the bolt action factory triggers are very nice and much better than mil spec semi autos.

[G-forceJunkie]

1.5 to 3 MOA is pretty average for a combat rifle with typical bulk grade FMJ ammo. AR tend to be better, AK's tend to be on the bigger end. These guns were designed to hit an 18" x 18" target out to a few hundred yards. 3 MOA= mission acomplished if the shooter did their part.

[jtmkinsd]

Iron sights? If so being "average shooter" you're about at the master-high master level...hmmmm

[kayaker]

1.5 to 3 MOA is pretty average for a combat rifle with typical bulk grade FMJ ammo. AR tend to be better, AK's tend to be on the bigger end. These guns were designed to hit an 18" x 18" target out to a few hundred yards. 3 MOA= mission acomplished if the shooter did their part.

I've yet to see a stock semi auto other than .22 long rifle shoot this kind of accuracy. Generally the best I've seen at 100 yards from a bench with an AR is about 6" usually more like 10" I've never even fired an AR platform rifle but I pay attention to what others are doing when I'm at the range. From what I've seen I think you've got to put some real money into an AR to get 1-1/2" groups. I've never even seen an AK fired at 100 yards and at 50 yards they usually cover the whole target. The guys shooting are generally happy to be making noise and accuracy doesn't seem to be a priority.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, I'm calling it as I've seen it and I hope that you guys will be honest with me, as well as with yourselves.

[Noah3683]

I'd be surprised at that kind of accuracy with a stock AR...no matter what kind of ammo you're using (ammo would have been covered under the "yadda yadda yadda category in my post...lol) I'm assuming that's at 100 yards? under match conditions? Are you at a certain skill level (sharpshooter, expert)?

I got 1.5" groups out of my chrome lined 16" BCM with a crap 3x scope at 100 yds and I'm a fairly average shooter. Its not exactly a miracle feat dude.

[Bug Splat]

My 16" bull barrel AR will shoot 1/4 MOA with my reloads. With factory ammo its still sub MOA. AR's can be extremely accurate with the right shooter. I used to use it in Benchrest matches for fun. Bolt guys hate to lose to a semi-auto