Question regarding AR 15 Bullet Button.

[Southbay]

[leelaw]

This has been covered - try the search function.

In a nutshell:
An open magazine well is not inherently capable of accepting or denying a detachable magazine. The magazine catch/release determines if it is a fixed or detachable magazine setup.

In the situation with the bullet button, the bullet button allows the insertion of magazines (magazines are not inherently detachable or fixed), but, once they are inside, it fixes them in place (requires the use of a tool to detach them - the definition of a fixed magazine per Penal Code and CCR.)

[Southbay]

?

This has been covered - try the search function.

In a nutshell:
An open magazine well is not inherently capable of accepting or denying a detachable magazine. The magazine catch/release determines if it is a fixed or detachable magazine setup.

In the situation with the bullet button, the bullet button allows the insertion of magazines (magazines are not inherently detachable or fixed), but, once they are inside, it fixes them in place (requires the use of a tool to detach them - the definition of a fixed magazine per Penal Code and CCR.)

I appreciate your responses. What I am struggling with is the open mag well. Is the open mag well illegal regardless of the bullet button?

[Prc329]

As stated the mag well is not the problem it is the mechanism that retains the magazine. If the mechanism allows you to redily remove the mag without the use of a tool it is illegal. The law never mentions an open mag well.

[SemiAutoSam]

That would depend on how the rifle is configured.

with no (as their called here) "Evil Features" its fine to have an open mag well.

look here.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.htm

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

I appreciate your responses. What I am struggling with is the open mag well. Is the open mag well illegal regardless of the bullet button?

[shark92651]

No. There is nothing in the law that says anything about an "open magwell". It defines a "fixed magazine" as one that requires a tool to remove it. There is no language that says the magazine has to always be in place. Furthermore, the language of the law describes a "detachable magazine" not an "attachable magazine". The fact that you can insert a new magazine without the use of a tool is irrelevant, since it requires a tool to remove it.

[Technical Ted]

Keep an empty 10 rd mag in the well while storing or transporting.

[Jicko]

Keep an empty 10 rd mag in the well while storing or transporting.

And for "added" peace of mind, separate your upper and lower.....

(I, personally, transported them in different bag/case too..)

[leelaw]

That would depend on how the rifle is configured.

Incorrect. An open magazine well is not illegal, nor does the magazine well define if it can accept or deny a detachable magazine. The mechanism used to catch/hold/release the magazine determines if it has a "capacity to accept a detachable magazine."

Since a detachable magazine is defined as one that can be released without the use of a tool, a bullet button-modified AR15 style lower is one that can not accept detachable magazines since it requires the use of a tool to release the magazine.

An open magazine well on an AR15 style rifle which has a bullet button properly installed is not illegal, even if you manage to cram on a flash hider, flare launcher, bayonet lug, forward pistol grip, thumbhole stock, pistol grip, collapsable/folding stock, beer holder, and on and on..

[Technical Ted]

And for "added" peace of mind, separate your upper and lower.....

(I, personally, transported them in different bag/case too..)

I don't go that far.

Just a silly thought: The way the retarded LE-DA-Media misinformation distribution chain works sometimes, can't you imagine seeing someone charged for TWO "illegal" firearms?

[bwiese]

An open magazine well is not illegal, nor does the magazine well define if it can accept or deny a detachable magazine. The mechanism used to catch/hold/release the magazine determines if it has a "capacity to accept a detachable magazine."

Since a detachable magazine is defined as one that can be released without the use of a tool, a bullet button-modified AR15 style lower is one that can not accept detachable magazines since it requires the use of a tool to release the magazine.

Pretty good. Let's just say that an open magwell that allows the mag to be removed without any tool is illegal - if it's on a semiauto centerfire rifle with any evil features.

[Jicko]

I don't go that far.

Just a silly thought: The way the retarded LE-DA-Media misinformation distribution chain works sometimes, can't you imagine seeing someone charged for TWO "illegal" firearms?

Ha ha ha.... and for the many many uppers that had been shipped to my home directly via UPS/Fedex.... there would be multiple counts of "illegal firearms" importation.....

PS. I break it up also cuz my trunk can't fit the assembled rifle

[SemiAutoSam]

An open mag well IE one that is capable of accepting a detachable mag would be illegal unless the rifle did not have any "Evil features" I was speaking of a natural rifle not one with a specific contraption attached to the mag release.

sorry to confuse.

This is why I included the statute in my post that you did not include in your quote of my post.

Incorrect. An open magazine well is not illegal, nor does the magazine well define if it can accept or deny a detachable magazine. The mechanism used to catch/hold/release the magazine determines if it has a "capacity to accept a detachable magazine."

Since a detachable magazine is defined as one that can be released without the use of a tool, a bullet button-modified AR15 style lower is one that can not accept detachable magazines since it requires the use of a tool to release the magazine.

An open magazine well on an AR15 style rifle which has a bullet button properly installed is not illegal, even if you manage to cram on a flash hider, flare launcher, bayonet lug, forward pistol grip, thumbhole stock, pistol grip, collapsable/folding stock, beer holder, and on and on..

[bwiese]

See the replies above, esp leelaw's, for commentary.

The CA AW law (12276.1PC) bans detachable magazines on semiauto centerfire rifles having one or more evil features (pistol grip, flash hider, folder or telestock, etc.)

However, CA regulatory code defines a 'detachable magazine' as one not requiring a tool to remove (and the tool can even be a bullet tip!). A magazine that requires a tool to remove is not a detachable magazine even though it is a removable magazine. Thus, there are bullet button mag catches on CA-compliant AR-pattern rifles. Because an alternate AW definition is triggered if a fixed magazine (i.e, a nondetachable one) can hold more than 10 rounds, mags used with this "bullet button" setup must hold 10 rounds or less.

Some folks instead use a screwed-down fixed 10rd magazine, and break open their AR-type rifles to load them.

Finally, many folks legally use any detachable magazine with their AR-pattern rifles in configurations without any 'evil features'. Such rifles commonly use a special "MonsterMan" grip that is not legally described by the regulatory definition of 'pistol grip', while other folks use a special "U15" stock that is not legally described by the regulatory definition of 'thumbhole stock'.

[shark92651]

Ha ha ha.... and for the many many uppers that had been shipped to my home directly via UPS/Fedex.... there would be multiple counts of "illegal firearms" importation.....

PS. I break it up also cuz my trunk can't fit the assembled rifle

I almost have that problem, I drive a Z3 and I can *barely* fit my 16" barrel AR in a soft-case. If it were a 20" it would not fit at all. I need a bigger car...