Bullet button - using it in range & "gun" lock for rifle

[AIMSMALL]

Regarding gun lock, I have CA approved gun lock which I had to purchase when I bought my handgun (Glock). So I was thinking that if I buy an AR-15, I can reuse this gun lock when I PICK UP the rifle.

However, for some store like Rifle Gear, they said that for purchasing a rifle, I have to show either of the following:

1). Purchase a gun lock from them (preferably I don't want to since I'll be using this one time)

2). Show evidence I have a gun safe

3). Show evidence I have bought a gun lock within 30 days and bring the RECEIPT.

So it looks like I cannot use my OWN gun lock?

Just curious if this what all store requires....

Correct, that is the law. Stupid but yeah it's the law. read the thread I posted that link to above, some guys have been succesful using a reciept printed off thier computer after buying the lock from thier wife for $1.

[jtmkinsd]

Listen, I understand you all think it's stupid...I DO TOO. But when the BATFE/DOJ agent looks up from the packets he is inspecting and asks the question "Where's the proof of purchase?" Can I call you to explain the law to the agent? It seems to me the loudest critics of what we do is from the people with the least to lose. FFL's are going to do what they believe is in their best interest, period.

[Ed_Hazard]

Regarding gun lock, I have CA approved gun lock which I had to purchase when I bought my handgun (Glock). So I was thinking that if I buy an AR-15, I can reuse this gun lock when I PICK UP the rifle.


However, for some store like Rifle Gear, they said that for purchasing a rifle, I have to show either of the following:

1). Purchase a gun lock from them (preferably I don't want to since I'll be using this one time)

Buy one at Big 5 and return it after the pick up.Any CA. approved lock will do, you do not need to buy a rife specific lock.

2). Show evidence I have a gun safe

Some places wont accept a safe affadavit with out first establishing that in fact you do own a CA approved safe. If you do own one take a copy of your purchase receipt or delivery bil.

3). Show evidence I have bought a gun lock within 30 days and bring the RECEIPT.

You can use your lock that you bought with your Glock for the pick up if the receipt is dated witrhen 30 days. If it is not you hae to purchase a new lock. You can purchase any CA approved lock and just take them the receipt. You can always return the lock after pickup if you want.

So it looks like I cannot use my OWN gun lock?

You cannot bring in a previously owned lock unless the date on the receipt falls withen the 30 day time frame.

Just curious if this what all store requires....

The stores do not require it the state does.

[Ed_Hazard]

This is not accurate. The only thing your lock is required to do is render the gun inoperable. A California approved safety device (the short one) can be run through the bolt and mag well and locked. The gun is now incapable of being fired. Mission accomplished. Keep in mind there is nothing in the law which requires your long gun to be transported this way. Federal law simply states you must be "provided" with a lock when you pick it up from a dealer. When going to the range I have my AR in my trunk in a nylon carry bag, no mag, no locks, yellow breech flag inserted, loaded mags in the pockets on the bag.

There is nothing in the law which says you have to have a magazine inserted in your AR...anywhere, anytime. I DROS and deliver AR lowers and rifles day in and day out and 99% do not have a mag inserted. I don't know where this paranoid belief came from that you have to have a mag in the gun but it's really annoying FUD.

Well seeing as he stated he wanted a lock for an AR15 Rifle and made a point to mentuion the whole non-detachable mag issue. I felt it would be nice to point him in the direction of a cable lock that would work for a rifle while keeping the magazine locked in.

[AIMSMALL]

Listen, I understand you all think it's stupid...I DO TOO. But when the BATFE/DOJ agent looks up from the packets he is inspecting and asks the question "Where's the proof of purchase?" Can I call you to explain the law to the agent? It seems to me the loudest critics of what we do is from the people with the least to lose. FFL's are going to do what they believe is in their best interest, period.

I completly understand this and blame the auditors not the FFL's, like I said before I think the FFL is being bullied. If I was an FFL I would probably do the same thing if I felt uncomfortable with the auditor.

I think the FFL's that buy your lock for $1 and sell you a lock for $1 are really doing thier best to keep both the customers and the auditors happy.

Also, just for the record, if I'm doing a transfer at an FFL who's policy is to sell you a lock or have you provide a reciept, I just buy a lock from them, it's usually $6 and it's my choice do go there so I just follow thier policy and I'm happy to be getting a new gun.

[jtmkinsd]

The biggest problem with the Federal law is it does NOT provide for any proof that a lock was provided. BUT, how do I prove a lock was provided...are they going to take my word for it?

It's all very frustrating...CA sucks, this we all know.

[AIMSMALL]

The stores do not require it the state does.

Hey Ed, IIRC, some FFL's will allow you to use the lock that originally came with the gun as your lock, sig locks say "sig" right on them and the law says that if the lock came with the gun then it's ok.

[dieselpower]

The DOJ hasn't approved the "bullet button" because the DOJ doesn't approve anything. It doesn't matter if the DOJ doesn't approve something, that means nothing.

Not exactly true. DoJ does in fact approve things in a round-about way, which is why the BB is legal...they did in fact approve the BB when they approved the BM top loading AR15. When the DoJ said that firearm had a fixed magazine, even when it was a detachable type magazine that needed tools to be detached opened the door for Prince50. So in reality, yes they did approve it. Its the 58 DAs that are now the focus.

If a cop saw you use a bullet (aka a tool) to remove your magazine, it wouldn't matter in the slightest. Removing a fixed magazine from a rifle does not, I repeat DOES NOT, change the fact that the rifle is still a "fixed magazine" rifle.

Removing a "fixed magazine" from a rifle is akin to disassembling the rifle, the bullet button is just quicker and more efficient than using screws or bolts.
Yup same as removing the magazine from an SKS.

So, enjoy your AR-15 and keep taking the magazines out the way the bullet button was designed. You may also want to look around the Calguns FAQs to enhance your knowledge of the gun before you worry about it more.

Well put, and everyone should end posts like this. knowledge is power in CA.

[bigpappa0095]

go to walmart, buy a lock, pick up rifle, return the lock.

[jtmkinsd]

Well seeing as he stated he wanted a lock for an AR15 Rifle and made a point to mentuion the whole non-detachable mag issue. I felt it would be nice to point him in the direction of a cable lock that would work for a rifle while keeping the magazine locked in.

Ya, I get your point...I guess that post was more directed toward the OP...when people spread the misconception you have to have a mag in the well for it to be a fixed magazine weapon I get a little perturbed...it's just not true and it feeds the fud.

[AIMSMALL]

The biggest problem with the Federal law is it does NOT provide for any proof that a lock was provided. BUT, how do I prove a lock was provided...are they going to take my word for it?

It's all very frustrating...CA sucks, this we all know.

You said it yourself, proof is not required therefore they should not be asking you for proof in the first place. Yes it is very frustrating, that they would even ask you for proof is rediculous but it happens often from what all the FFL's tell me.

[jtmkinsd]

You said it yourself, proof is not required therefore they should not be asking you for proof in the first place. Yes it is very frustrating, that they would even ask you for proof is rediculous but it happens often from what all the FFL's tell me.

You are absolutely right...but it's akin to arguing with a cop on the side of the road, I'm never going to win an argument with an agent when he's sitting on the other side of my counter. And pissing him/her off is not an option. So it's yes sir/mam, no sir/mam...lol

[AIMSMALL]

You are absolutely right...but it's akin to arguing with a cop on the side of the road, I'm never going to win an argument with an agent when he's sitting on the other side of my counter. And pissing him/her off is not an option. So it's yes sir/mam, no sir/mam...lol

Yes sir, no sir has always worked pretty well for me with LEO's so yeah I get your point. The whole thing is, "just one of those things" ya know.

[Ed_Hazard]

Hey Ed, IIRC, some FFL's will allow you to use the lock that originally came with the gun as your lock, sig locks say "sig" right on them and the law says that if the lock came with the gun then it's ok.

As long as the lock included with the gun is CA. approved it should be fine. If the lock is from a manufacturer or model that the state does not approve you may still have to buy a new lock.

12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device. (b) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state shall be accompanied with warning language or labels as described in Section 12088.3.
(c)(1) All long-gun safes commercially sold or transferred in this state, or manufactured in this state for sale in this state, that do not meet the standards for gun safes adopted pursuant to Section 12088.2 shall be accompanied by the following warning:
"WARNING: This gun safe does not meet the safety standards for gun safes specified in California Penal Code Section 12088.2. It does not satisfy the requirements of Penal Code Section 12088.1, which mandates that all firearms sold in California be accompanied by a firearms safety device or proof of ownership, as required by law, of a gun safe that meets the Section 12088.2 minimum safety standards developed by the California Attorney General."


So if we take that to mean that a Sig branded lock meets the reference requirement then you should be ok.

[radioburning]

I transport rifles with the magazines locked in. That way if I get pulled over, and an LEO ends up looking at the rifles, it's very easy to point out, right then and there, how the magazines can not be detached by hand.