California Legal AR

[Hopalong Cassadiche]

Hi Guys,

I recently purchased a lower receiver and want to build a legal AR with an open magazine. I do not like Mini 14s or Kel-tecs...my friends have had numerous reliability issues with these rifles.

I will NOT have the following elements incorporated in the build:

1. flash hider (or muzzle brake)
2. pistol grip
3. bayo lug
4. front grip
5. telescopic stock
6. grenade/flare launcher

The barrel will be 16" and the overall length of the rifle will exceed 30".

I called the DOJ and got conflicting opinions on the MONSTER MAN GRIP. One field agent went on Monster Man Grip's website and told me that it is perfectly legal. However, I called again and was told that the DOJ has not rendered its opinion on the leaglity of the grip and that it is a matter of interpretation.

This is really confusing as I do not want to even remotely entertain having an illegal rifle. Any thoughts?

Also, I was under the impression that upper receivers are considered "parts", however the DOJ agent told me that if let's say I install a Colt upper, it is an issue of interpretation and the rifle could still be confiscated.

Please advise.

[RobG]

never mind me

[ns3v3n]

if you fear so much about being legal or not, just go gripless, but using mmg will be just fine,

[Surveyor]

Welcome to Calguns.

First off, I would suggest posting in the "New to Calguns" forum, if you can't get a straight answer from the search feature. This question's been dealt with in many threads. However, with the amount of disinformation coming out of the DOJ, it's easy to get confused .

To answer your question, the Monster Man Grip is 100% legal on a "featureless" build. If you can't wrap your thumb around it, it's not a pistol grip or a thumbhole. What's happening is the DOJ can't stop you legally, so they try to intimidate you with their double speak. Even when they approve a weapon, they will still try and claim it's illegal (DSA Kali-FAL ) so don't worry too much about getting their blessing.

Here is a better explanation of the MM grip, than I can give, from the creator himself. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=50876

[Surveyor]

Wow! My first time to say it... SEARCH is your friend. The info you need is all over this site.

We should all be nice to the new members.
'Nuff said

Here's what the big guy himself had to say about posts like yours:

SNIP...Fourteen people all posting 'USE THE SEARCH NOOB!' is not generally a good way to make fledgling firearms enthusiasts feel welcome, or so I've heard.

Found in this post http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...047#post589047

[bwiese]

I will NOT have the following elements incorporated in the build:

1. flash hider (or muzzle brake)
2. pistol grip
3. bayo lug
4. front grip
5. telescopic stock
6. grenade/flare launcher

The barrel will be 16" and the overall length of the rifle will exceed 30".

Good man, you're cautious and you've done a bit of research. However, let's clarify a few things, since you may be mixing up a few things between the now-expired Federal AW ban and CA's current ban:

• bayonet lugs are not an evil feature in California. You can have 20 of 'em on your rifle;
• pure muzzle brakes are legal and are not evil feature; your rifle can have a threaded bbl as well (as long as over 16").

I called the DOJ and got conflicting opinions on the MONSTER MAN GRIP. One field agent went on Monster Man Grip's website and told me that it is perfectly legal.

Yep. Probably one of the few cool ones that refuses to be politically correct.

However, I called again and was told that the DOJ has not rendered its opinion on the leaglity of the grip and that it is a matter of interpretation.

I believe the yes/no answers generated by DOJ may be indeed driven by a random number generator.

Lack of approval in no way means illegality. And DOJ has approved things that have severely questionable legal status (the Evan's/GBsales welded-up Colt AR15s, the Vulcan fixed-mag lowers whose 'fixed' mags can be removed by tugging on them).

The MonsterMan grip is simply not described by the only regulatory definition applicable:

11 CCR 5469(d): "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

Also, I was under the impression that upper receivers are considered "parts", however the DOJ agent told me that if let's say I install a Colt upper, it is an issue of interpretation and the rifle could still be confiscated.

Damn, back to nursery school for these guys.

There's no way a Colt *upper* can be considered other than parts. The make/model of the rifle is determined by the lower receiver markings.

Join 50,000 or more other fine folks in CA and use your MonsterMan rifle - or one with a U15 stock, which is not a thumbhole stock - in good health.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Good job contributing to the forum, Rob .
Let's see, you've got 65 posts, 6 months and you want to bash the Newbies ?

You are a semi-newb yourself.

[Surveyor]

You are a semi-newb yourself.

Yes, I am. That's why I help the the new members, not bash them.

I've been here for over a year, how 'bout you ?

[E Pluribus Unum]

Yes, I am. That's why I help the the new members, not bash them.

I've been here for over a year, how 'bout you ?

Significantly longer.... try 3 years.

[Surveyor]

Significantly longer.... try 3 years.

Then you should be three times as nice and as helpful as me .

[shark92651]

Welcome Hopalong, you have definitely come to the right place to ask these questions. Looks like Bill has you all squared away so all I can add is to ask that you please purchase your CA build parts from the vendors listed at the top of the forum - support the vendors that are supporting you!

[E Pluribus Unum]

Then you should be three times a nice and as helpful as me .

I am three times the PITA...

[tenpercentfirearms]

First, just stick to the law. Don't go off of what you feel or what someone says, stick with the law.

For example, you don't want a bayonet lug when there is absolutely nothing illegal about a bayonet lug. Nothing.

Basically, you need to replace the flash hider with a muzzle brake or fake can.

Then make sure you have a fixed buttstock.

Finally, put on the MonsterMan Grip.

That would be a featureless rifle as long as you do not add a forward pistol grip or flare/grenade launcher.

That is all there is to it.

[RobG]

Good job contributing to the forum, Rob .
Let's see, you've got 65 posts, 6 months and you want to bash the Newbies

You are a semi-newb yourself.

I don't claim to be anything, was trying to be a bit funny/sarcastic, not a d&*k.

Apologies....

[cxs2]

Go to the main page of Calguns.net

And read the FAQ. There is so much **** out there it took me about two months to understand that you need to read state law. Read the statue on the subject. It is not hard to find. Read the FAQ. Then you will be enlightened like me. MM Grip is way ok and you can get away with a lot more. Stop reading DOJ opinions.