ACR....why?

[dchang0]

Linkpimp,

all good points except the multiple caliber points. You obviosly haven't been reading reviews by people who already have it. The barrel change out system is BS. There is no way to keep zero between barrels.

Linkpimp made no mention of not having to re-zero between barrel changes. Re-zeroing is a given with any barrel change, even on an AR system, so yes, ARs do have the upper hand on just switching out the uppers with premounted, prezeroed optics.

But that's an awful lot of money sunk into multiple optics. If you're an ACOG shooter like me, to shoot 3 different calibers (or 3 different barrels/uppers), we're talking 3 x $1000 = $3000 in glass (or mounting and remounting the same scope on different uppers, which will destroy the screws/threads/QD latches over time).

With the ACR, I can keep one ACOG and rezero between barrel changes, saving me roughly the price of the ACR!

[ProlificARProspect]

I agree with the OP, there really is no advantages to the ACR for us in CA, especially for the price (and weight!). The idea of quickly switching out barrels and calibers is definately cool, but only a novelty/selling point for me. I'd like to see how many people actually pick up the kits and use them. I'd rather just buy a second upper or entire gun.

It would be fun to have one SBRed though. A 11.5 or so barrel and folding stock would be pretty cool. I hope the price drops eventually, I plan to be out of the state in 2 years and if the price has been reduced I'll pick one up.

+1

Way to heavy for a plastic Gun, that was a big turn off, would be excellent platform if was 6 lbs w/o ammo....

Makes my LMT MRP's lightweight compared to the ACR...

As price is concern and if it will do Californians any good???.... well.... on the price...No comment . For the Californians that do get it...well at least it comes with a fixed stock, all you got to do is put a comp and solar tactical your grip and your golden....just like BuSHMAster.





`

[richzmn]

I got mine because it's simple, it's just caveman. It's caveman simple.

[PEBKAC]

*doesn't have to re-zero between barrel changes*

Honestly the only things I really like about it are the ambi-release and the charging handle...mostly the charging handle (it looks absolutely spot on), but neither of those features are in and of themselves are worth that much extra cabbage IMO.

Maybe I just wish I had that much money to drop on one of those.

[Discogodfather]

What's always interesting to me is the history behind rifle designs. Just look at how things have developed over the last 30 years since the Military has been looking for a replacement for the Stoner AR designs.

There's no coincidence that Remington / Bushmaster adopted the "ACR" as the name of the rifle. The Advanced Combat Rifle program started in the early 80's by the military was looking for the "next step" in rifle design. The first weapons developed by an array of manufacturers (including Colt, HK, FN, etc) all focused on case-less flechette ammo. The idea was to get a smaller, lighter, and more accurate assault weapon with higher penetration.

Verdict by Military: needs more development. Problems with the ammo and rifles like the HK G11's reliability concluded the whole ACR experiment was just too incremental a change to be worth considering replacing the AR.

Then came really Sci-Fi stuff in the 90's. The ACR program morphed into the OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) program. This time developers focused on these 20mm and 40mm programable grenades coupled with a 5.56 fairly basic assault rifle.

Again the verdict was similar: inconclusive in any recommendation to adopt these weapons over the AR. Even though the programable grenades could shoot through walls and blow up all kinds of funky stuff the military just could not justify it for cost, weight, functionality, reliability, etc.

In the last decade it seems all manufacturers have taken a few steps back from the high tech approach of Flechettes and electronic rifles and basically ALL PRODUCED THE SAME NEW RIFLE: a rounded out slightly better version of an AR. The AR does have some questionable design features and these next gen rifles address the problems.

My personal verdict: BORING!!!! What is the difference between a SCAR, ACR, XCR, etc? They all seem to be the same rifle going after the same market: make a slightly better AR. Round off the edges. Add a few gimick features.

That makes me ask the real question: if in the 80's and 90's we where more advanced technologically in our thinking than we are in the 2000's when it comes to rifle design, what the hell are we doing? Where are the Eugene Stoner's and Kalashnikov's of our generation? I just can't stand it when a rifle like the ACR comes out and it's hailed as the "next quantum leap" in rifle design when it's just a slightly better version of an AR. So slight it makes the price tag look so big compared to any real innovation gained.

[Ruiner]

I think there are only so many ways you can shoot bullets out of a shoulder fired weapon so until they figure out a way to make compact energy weapons and produce it cheaply, I don't think anything will change except for ergonomics and a few features here and there. Same thing can be said about say, cars.

[The DRis]

Dchang,

that may be the case. But speaking in SHTF terms, every time you change the caliber you will have to re-zero, using up precious ammo supplies and possibly giving away your position, or attracting unwanted attention.

[dchang0]

Dchang,

that may be the case. But speaking in SHTF terms, every time you change the caliber you will have to re-zero, using up precious ammo supplies and possibly giving away your position, or attracting unwanted attention.

True dat, but I'd probably leave my ACR (if I get one) in 6.5 Grendel most of the time, only switching calibers when at the range for some fun time. That way, I'd likely have the best compromise round (best compromise between long and short range lethality) already installed and zeroed if and when the S hits the F. And I could shoot the much-cheaper 5.56 at the range, all while getting to practice on the exact same rifle I'd use all the other times.

Certainly, if in an actual SHTF situation, I would probably not change the barrels out except in the rare instance when I would have the luxury of doing so (such as if I'm holed up with a bunch of neighbors who also have guns and ammo, defending our neighborhood Hurricane Katrina style--drawing unwanted attention could be okay in that situation).

Best of all for SHTF, I wouldn't have to lug around more than one rifle for different purposes. Imagine you or I had to bug out and leave our homes behind. Carrying one ACR with one optic plus three barrels will certainly be easier than carrying one AR lower plus three uppers + three optics (assuming we are carrying equal amounts of magazines and ammo for the different calibers). Even if we're bugging out in vehicles, the space taken up by three uppers with optics is much more than three skinny barrels, and that space could be used for extra ammo (for zeroing or zombie-killing).

And of course, that money saved could buy lots of extra ammo for zeroing.

I think the most valuable part of sticking with one ACR is training muscle memory. Having one rifle with all the same stuff in all the same places is a huge boon for those of us who practice a lot. My AR uppers are all slightly different from one another (because they were built at different times and with different purposes and budgets), so I sometimes get confused switching between them because the handling is different. For example, I recently trained (hard-core for 14 months straight) on a carbine-length handguard. Afterward, I upgraded my main rifle's upper to a rifle-length handguard to get a little more room under the barrel for shooting from prone with a sling. But under stress, I'll unconsciously fall back to a carbine-type grip/stance, rather than taking advantage of the extra length on my rails. Old habits really die hard...

It's like that saying, "Beware the man with only one gun, because he will know how to use it." If I get an ACR, I can expect to get really, really damned good at handling it--much better than I would with three slightly-different ARs.

[5150bronco]

i appreciate the model of this rifle......think it is unique and has its advantages just like scar for instance....and a plus too is having variety even though I am a huge and loyal ar colt lover.

[The DRis]

WTF are you doing with three barrels? Ignoring the fact that I have .308s for hunting. Let's say I pick 6.8 or 6.5 for hunting. Now I how two uppers. One in 5.56 for fighting. And one for hunting. Two pins and I'm changed and zeroed. No wasted ammo. Nada. And really, they don't take up that much room so that's a null arguement. I've got a F150 so space isn't an issue. So I don't see a whole lot of good in the ACR. Yeah the controls may be on the same spot. But an upper with a bipod for hunting isn't used like an upper built for combat. So muscle memory isn't needed there. CH is in the back, mag release same spot, trigger feels the same. I don't see any advantages the ACR has over an AR.

Don't get me wrong. Of someone wants one get one. Hell, I want one in a couple years when they fix QC a bit and the advanced comes out. No need to justify a purchase. But some things actually aren't better than an AR platform.

And I say again. Have you read the reviews on it from arfcom? The barrel change out is BS. He used a 4lb sledge and a vice to get the barrel tight enough to compete with AR accuracy. You gonna have those tools on the move if SHTF?

[dchang0]

WTF are you doing with three barrels? Ignoring the fact that I have .308s for hunting. Let's say I pick 6.8 or 6.5 for hunting. Now I how two uppers. One in 5.56 for fighting. And one for hunting. Two pins and I'm changed and zeroed. No wasted ammo. Nada. And really, they don't take up that much room so that's a null arguement. I've got a F150 so space isn't an issue. So I don't see a whole lot of good in the ACR. Yeah the controls may be on the same spot. But an upper with a bipod for hunting isn't used like an upper built for combat. So muscle memory isn't needed there. CH is in the back, mag release same spot, trigger feels the same. I don't see any advantages the ACR has over an AR.

Don't get me wrong. Of someone wants one get one. Hell, I want one in a couple years when they fix QC a bit and the advanced comes out. No need to justify a purchase. But some things actually aren't better than an AR platform.

And I say again. Have you read the reviews on it from arfcom? The barrel change out is BS. He used a 4lb sledge and a vice to get the barrel tight enough to compete with AR accuracy. You gonna have those tools on the move if SHTF?

Three barrels: 14.5" w/ pinned FH in 5.56 for home defense, 18" in 5.56 for 3gun competitions, 16" or 18" in 6.5 Grendel for hunting & general purpose combat out to 400yds. All three barrels tied together take up less space than a single AR upper with optic and can fit easily in a rucksack, right to the side of the main compartment, or in the front pocket of my soft rifle case. They could also fit in the bottom compartment just inside my door panel Definitely not a null argument for those of us who live in small apartments, drive tiny commuter cars, and would like to be able to hump all their gear on their persons in a bug-out situation. You've got an F-150 that's big enough to fit a couple of families' worth of gear, but that's YOU, not me. A single rifle makes a lot of sense for MY situation and might make sense for the OP.

And muscle memory is big, big, big for me. 95% of the time, I'm using my rifle in situations where there's a shot timer running, and I'm aiming for 0.2sec splits, 2.5sec mag changes, and 5sec malfunction clearing. To get those times, every action has to be automatic and ingrained deeply into muscle memory. It's something I have to practice daily at home for months to someday achieve.

Yeah, I admit, the ACR has bugs. I fully expect them to work out the problem with the interchangeable barrels so that they can be swapped with no tools in the field (as was intended) and maintain accuracy (probably by ACR version 2 and definitely by version 3). And no, I don't plan on carrying a sledge and vise in the field, but neither do I plan on carrying more than one upper, if I had an AR. If in the field on foot, the rifle I got is the only rifle I've got and might even be the only firearm I've got. I'd be lucky to have the little bundle of extra barrels in my ruck. Even if I had a car in a bug-out SHTF situation, I'd not carry more than one rifle, one shotgun, and two handguns, with all the mags and ammo to run them. There would barely be enough room for extra food and water, so all other guns and gear would be left behind. Considering that all the roads out of SoCal would be parking lots in a SHTF bug-out situation, including those "secret" dirt roads through the backwoods, having to hump all my gear on my person is a very likely scenario. I don't know about you, but a 30lb ruck with 35lbs of guns and ammo is a helluva load to carry on my back for even a few hundred yards, much less 100 miles. Hell, a super-lightweight SCAR is looking awful attractive right now, over the heavier ACR.

It sounds to me like you're more of a hunter than a tactical/competition guy, so yes, the ACR wouldn't hold much appeal for you. It is, after all, the Adaptive Combat Rifle. For us competition/tactical guys, it makes a lot more sense.

[The DRis]

I hear what your saying. And I kind of understand. But your still digging yourself into a hole. Now your talking about possibly bugging out on foot. Now are you going to have extra ammo to zero when you do barrel changes? HUGE downside. Losing zero wrecks everything. Again, not saying the ACR is crap, just saying that for that particular instance it's not cool.

As for range trips. When you go to the range, your going to have to swap barrels, zero, shoot competition or target or whatever. Then swap barrels again and rezero. Taking 3-4x as long, hell, possibly 10x's longer than 2 pins with a already zero'd optic. Competion reasons would highly suggest the AR over the ACR. And yes I shoot competitivly. But only pistol.

[C_1]

Somebody really likes their AR and doesnt see the ACR as an improvement

Dont get me wrong, I love my AR, but its about time for "the next best thing." (haha) Even though its $2400+. But if the S ever HTF, then I'd take my AK and if I had it, an ACR with a 6.5/6.8 barrel in it and an extra 5.56 barrel for it. Those 2 rifles should take care of everything I need..

Preference, budget, training/familiarity, etc etc, all play a role as to why one may want or need the ACR. Different strokes for different folks..

[Donk310]

I don't understand what your trying to get at?

It's something different and "new-ish" in design. Why would anyone need an AR? An AK? FAL? HK's? Any handgun beside a 1911?

It's a big deal for anyone that's a gun nut because it's something I DON'T HAVE!

You said it with two words.... "GUN NUT". Its also a CA thing. Us Californians just plain like to have new stuff.

[The DRis]

I do like the AR. And if you read all the posts you'll even see where I said I want an ACR. I just don't think it's all that and more. Or even an improvement.

Hell I want an ACR and a SCAR. Just trying to help those who may not know all about it about some of the downsides to it.