Legal and practical to carry a concealed Keltec Sub-2000?

[ChronoCube]

Since it is generally legal to have an unloaded long gun in public in CA, except for near schools, would it be legal and practical to carry a concealed Sub2000 in a messenger bag while you are out and about? The carbine would be unloaded, a stock extension permanently affixed (30" OAL), a bullet button installed (hypothetical), and folded up. This would allow you to CC a long gun instead of OC a handgun, which might disturb the sheep.

Is this legal and practical?

[virulosity]

How is it going to protect you unloaded and locked?

[ChronoCube]

How is any other unloaded gun going to protect you? It's not like you can carry loaded right? Better to have a gun that will require three seconds to unfold and load than to have no gun at all. But you can compare it to having an OC handgun. Or evaluate whether it could cause any inconvenience, etc.

[aplinker]

Legal? Yes. Practical? well.....

[Once A Marine]

How is any other unloaded gun going to protect you? It's not like you can carry loaded right? Better to have a gun that will require three seconds to unfold and load than to have no gun at all. But you can compare it to having an OC handgun. Or evaluate whether it could cause any inconvenience, etc.

Don't confuse people open carrying in the name of RKBA with carrying to protect oneself.

[virulosity]

A gun is probably the least effective way to protect yourself in CA, unless you have CCW. You could maybe buy a bear?

[ChronoCube]

We've established legality, now let's talk practicality. Let me rephrase my question -- do the benefits of carrying this outweigh the inconveniences, compared to open carrying a handgun and to not having a firearm on you at all?

[PutTogether]

We've established legality, now let's talk practicality. Let me rephrase my question -- do the benefits of carrying this outweigh the inconveniences, compared to open carrying a handgun and to not having a firearm on you at all?

I don't mean to sound like an *** - but doesn't your question answer itself? How can having ANY gun ever not be considered preferable to no gun at all? I mean sure, I guess it is a pain in the *** to carry around, but if you really want to have a gun on you, it seems like that it shouldn't be a big deal. If it seems like too big a deal, well then, you don't want to carry a gun that bad.

Do you carry a messenger bag anyway?

[ChronoCube]

Carrying the bag around is not that big of a deal to me. I'm a student and I've carried a messenger bag before. I use a backpack now, but wouldn't have a problem with switching back to a messenger bag.

Earlier when we talked about the carbine being impractical or not, I said it was better than nothing if you are in danger. However, without assumptions of such scenarios, you might face hassles. For example, going into a store, you might be asked to hand over the bag. If you get stopped by a cop, it would look bad even though it is fully legal. Kind of like how in Texas it is legal to carry a loaded AR or AK in public, but you'd be harassed by LEOs who are not aware of that. These are examples of inconveniences that would come from legally carrying a folded carbine in your bag.

So is having a concealed carbine worth these inconveniences? Can you think of other inconveniences that come from carrying it?

[corrupt]

Might as well just carry a handgun in a pocket of your bag that you can lock with a cheap combo lock. It'd probably be just as fast as unfolding a rifle... haha.

[dchang0]

I think it's a question that only you can answer. For me, the weight and bulk aren't worth it--I'd rather carry a handgun, unloaded, in a locked, fully-enclosed container than a long gun.

However, it would take me up to five minutes to deploy a handgun in that situation, which means that it would only be useful for a small fraction of possible self-defense situations. Your long gun would likely be faster to deploy because of the absence of the lock.

I say you augment your carry situation with a large folding (not fixed-blade) knife and the training to use it. That would handle most surprise attacks, leaving the long gun for attacks where you aren't the first target.

Ultimately, what you carry depends mostly on where you live and go. When I used to live in East Pasadena, getting harassed by perps was a weekly thing. Having a long gun in a bag would've been nice then.

If you walk or bicycle everywhere like I did then, then yes, having a large bag on you does make it hard to enter some establishments like retail stores, etc. In those cases, the UL CC handgun in a small bag would probably be okay but the long gun in its large bag wouldn't.

It also depends heavily on the nature of the stores you frequent. In some places, students carrying backpacks/messenger bags are okay. In others, "all backpacks are subject to search" because those same students tend to shoplift.

[CD MCKINNEY]

When I lived in "Kalifornia" I carried a loaded, Colt Commander .45, concealed and I didn't care as much about the [stupid] law as I did my safety [and] I had to pull it twice to protect myself.

Now I live In phoenix with a CCW and carry this 10MM concealed:

[corrupt]

I think it's a question that only you can answer. For me, the weight and bulk aren't worth it--I'd rather carry a handgun, unloaded, in a locked, fully-enclosed container than a long gun.

However, it would take me up to five minutes to deploy a handgun in that situation, which means that it would only be useful for a small fraction of possible self-defense situations. Your long gun would likely be faster to deploy because of the absence of the lock.

I say you augment your carry situation with a large folding (not fixed-blade) knife and the training to use it. That would handle most surprise attacks, leaving the long gun for attacks where you aren't the first target.

Ultimately, what you carry depends mostly on where you live and go. When I used to live in East Pasadena, getting harassed by perps was a weekly thing. Having a long gun in a bag would've been nice then.

If you walk or bicycle everywhere like I did then, then yes, having a large bag on you does make it hard to enter some establishments like retail stores, etc. In those cases, the UL CC handgun in a small bag would probably be okay but the long gun in its large bag wouldn't.

It also depends heavily on the nature of the stores you frequent. In some places, students carrying backpacks/messenger bags are okay. In others, "all backpacks are subject to search" because those same students tend to shoplift.

5 minutes? Just find a pocket on your bag (two zippered pocket perhaps), get a $3 combo luggage lock, set the combo to say 111, and keep it on 110. All you have to do is open the lock, and stick the magazine in the pistol and make it condition 1. That really doesn't take more than 20 seconds unless you're all thumbs.

[aplinker]

5 minutes? Just find a pocket on your bag (two zippered pocket perhaps), get a $3 combo luggage lock, set the combo to say 111, and keep it on 110. All you have to do is open the lock, and stick the magazine in the pistol and make it condition 1. That really doesn't take more than 20 seconds unless you're all thumbs.

in ideal conditions. What about under stress? In the dark?

Unless the combo has a stop it's actually difficult. It's fine motor control.

[JBird33]

Threads like this make me feel very lucky to live in Shasta county. Hopefully the supreme court brings you all shall issue CCW! All these questions would become obsolete.