basic question on sight picture with peep sights on AR15

[swift]

I've been blessed/cursed with starting an interest in rifles somewhat later in life when I could afford good scopes. Some of you point out that the really good shooters can shoot well using iron sights. So help me understand what the sight picture should look like with a peep sight on an AR15.

When I look through the rear sight, I see the center sight and have a hard time seeing the 'wings' of the front sight. I assume that I want the top of the front sight centered in the field of view through the apeture and that it should just touch the center of my target. Should I be seeing the curved parts of the front sight as well? Should I be seeing any of the base of the front sight in my sight picture?

I've used this sight picture at 100 yards (off bags) and gotten 5" groups, but I'd like to get it tighter so I can try 200 and 300 yards.

[blkA4alb]

Just look through the rear apeture at the front center post. The "wings" are not related to aiming in any way and are simply there to protect the front sight. Your eye will naturally center the front sight post within the rear apeture.

[anotherted]

Focus on the post, not the target.

ETA: Jim Owens has a great book on this subject called "Sight Alignment and trigger control" (I believe).
WELL worth the time.

[Pthfndr]

Go read the first 4 chapters by Jim Owens on sight alignment, etc. It'll get you going in the right direction.

http://www.jarheadtop.com/chapters.htm

[Technical Ted]

Just happens that I have a picture handy.

[kj]

I too started rifle shooting at a late age (40) when I started highpower. I focus on the front sight, which is centered in the rear aperture. Also, I put the post right under the bullseye - a six o'clock hold. My eyes aren't good enough to see the target if I push the front sight up into it.

[Technical Ted]

Check out these excerpts from Jim Owen's book "Sight Alignment, Trigger Control and The Big Lie"

http://www.jarheadtop.com/Chapter_one.htm

http://www.jarheadtop.com/Chapter_Two.htm

http://www.jarheadtop.com/Chapter_Three.htm

http://www.jarheadtop.com/Chapter_Four.htm

When I first read them about 10 years ago my groups improved dramatically.

ETA: oops didn't see Pathfinder's post.

[xenophobe]

Focus on the post, not the target.

No, focus on the target, and not your sights. Your front post should be nearly in focus, your rear sight should be fuzzy. Do not pay attention to your sights, pay attention to your target.

Looking through the rear peep, the front sight will naturally line up to where you are aiming.

If you are focused on your front sight, you will not even see your target.

[Pthfndr]

No, focus on the target, and not your sights. Your front post should be nearly in focus, your rear sight should be fuzzy. Do not pay attention to your sights, pay attention to your target.

Looking through the rear peep, the front sight will naturally line up to where you are aiming.

If you are focused on your front sight, you will not even see your target.

You are wrong.

[adamsreeftank]

I'm going to get a bowl of popcorn.
This should be good.

[blkA4alb]

You are wrong.

No, he isn't. You should acquire the front sight but you should not be focusing on it.

[FinweElensar]

You are wrong.

Please, educate us.

[xenophobe]

You are wrong.

My advice shows results.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=420492

Take the gun, to a real range and fire at a 25 yard rapid fire pistol target starting at 7y.

Aim at the center

Take slow, precise shots

Make sure your grip the pistol firmly, with a tight wrist.

Aim steady

Breathe normally

Pull the trigger smoothly all the way back when you reach 'fully exhaled pause'.
Pull the trigger all the way through until it doesn't move...
Do not jerk the trigger, do not hold your breath, do not focus on your sights...

Your rear sight should be blurry, your front sight should be almost in focus, you should be focused and be concentrating on the target. Your sights are to be viewed out of focus, but lined up with the target which you are paying attention to.

I read this post before heading out to the range earlier tonight and all I can say is

THANK YOU..

My Sig is the first pistol I have owned and the first 500 rounds were all over the paper. Following your advice I was able to place my shots almost exactly where I wanted them to go. I was shooting very tight groups like I knew what I was doing... Had many runs of touching holes..

Feels like I overcame a major stumbling block in my shooting ability. I owe ya one..

[ldivinag]

Just happens that I have a picture handy.

what if your rear sight doesnt have the 2 red cross-pieces...






jk...

[chickenfried]

Yeah what does pathfinder know, he's never worked at a gun shop . Come to think of it the guys on the USAMU Service Rifle Team probably haven't either, I'm never listening to their advice again.

The cmp site is acting kinda wonky right now. Here's a link showing how Norm Anderson, the guy answering the question below, did at the 2005 national matches at camp perry.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ajHFK1IU1R8J:clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_matchResult.cgi%3FmatchID%3D827+norman+anderson+national+matches&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&lr=lang_en&client=firefox-a

http://www.odcmp.com/USAMU/Shooting_Tips.htm

Q: Sir, I shoot service rifle and I have heard it explained many times that the shooter should focus and concentrate on the front sight. As simple as it sounds, I’m not sure I do it. When I prepare to make a shot, I look through the rear sight at the combination of the front sight and the aiming black of the target. Before taking the shot, I make sure the tip of the front post is exactly in the middle of the black circle created by the rear sight. Then after being satisfied of this alignment, I position the front post as perfectly centered on the aiming black as I can with the appropriate “line of white” then shoot. I do not consciously concentrate only on the front post but, rather the combination of the post and aiming black as one sight picture although, the post is sharply in focus. Am I viewing the right thing the right way? Thanks, Mike

A: Mike, My first response to your question is Yes, you are looking at the right thing the right way. I know this because you say the FRONT SIGHT POST is sharply in focus, not the target. My concern however is that you are not giving your full attention to the front sight at all times, and here is why I say that. The front sight moves all the time, meanwhile, the target stays still, right? The natural tendency is to be drawn to the target just because it doesn't move. That is what makes focusing on the front sight so difficult; we are fighting a natural instinct to look at the still target. This is what also makes looking at the sight picture as a whole "not the best thing to do."

As a shooter, you need to be aware of the location of the front sight post in relation to the target, not as part of it. When you can gain control of your focus and stay on the front sight while it moves around, you will see immediately that you will be inside of call, and your shots will be closer and closer to center. Understand that this isn't too far departed from what you see already. I think that what you are missing is right there in between checking your alignment and final focus on the front sight post. Just remember to always keep your focus on the front sight, and good things will happen.

Good Shooting,
SFC Norm Anderson