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How "screwed" am I? Stripped screw in 308 lower

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  • #16
    NeoWeird
    Veteran Member
    • Dec 2005
    • 3342

    most EDMs need a start hole for the wire to pass through before it can be turned on to cut so that won't work.

    First, your best bet is to use DRIVERS, not the L shaped wrenchs. Second, you NEED to have pressure on the driver while it's setting up with the adhesive. Letting it just sit there while it dries will create a loose fit that will snap the second you touch it - it's the same reason why woodworkers use a bazillion clamps when gluing wood together. I can all but guarantee that if you haven't put pressure on it, it will fail.

    Here is what you need to do. Find out which torx wrench fits in their best. You're looking for one that just BARELY doesn't go in - it will probably feel a little wobbly, like all but one or two corners go in and when you try to push the corners in that are out, the corners on the opposite pop out. Then go to a hardware store and buy an American made hardened driver (you may need to buy a whole set). A lot of imported tools are not made with the same quality steel as those from more 'prosperous' countries. American, German, Swiss, etc are all good but American will suffice.

    You can use a heat source, but it's not really required. If you do, you could probably get by with a hair dryer on it's hottest setting. Get a towel and lay it on a HARD SOLID surface. A counter is best, or other floor/wall mounted object, but you could probably get away with using a large desk or table. Now lubricate the top of the screw liberally with a thin oil. Penetrating oils are fine, but WD-40 works well as well so you don't need to spend money if you don't need to. Oil and let it set for a couple minutes. Oil again and turn on the heat if you're going to use it. Keep adding oil every couple minutes or as it dries. You're not looking for scalding hot metal, just warmer than say it would get with your holding it. Get a second set of hands and have them hold the receiver steady. Take the driver and place it in the mouth of the screw and put gentle turning pressure on it. Not enough to strip the mouth, but enough that it would probably turn the receiver if it weren't held. Now give the driver a good whack on the base. Each time you whack it, give it a little more turning force on impact. Repeat several times and it should come out.

    I'm assuming the hole was tapped with a regular sized tap and when anodizing was done it shrunk to being undersized. Your screw goes in and displaces metal away by force, but once it's in it's now a press fit and will be very hard to get out (same concept as a chinese finger trap). It probably went in smooth because of it's relative size which is also why it stripped so easily.

    The heat expands the hole - not much but it's more to help oil move down into the threads than to increase the holes size.

    The oil lubricates and prevents the screw from bitting as it comes out and prevents friction from working against you.

    The hardened driver will displace a small bit of metal as it's hit with the hammer and will resist deforming so the screw will deform and not it. You use a driver instead of a wrench because you need all impact force going straight down and you want the turning force equally offset near the center and not on a arc away from center that can easily tilt off center.

    The hammer acts like an impact wrench. It causes a wave to push through the screw which can very momentarily expand the hole as it passes through to the receiver. It also jars loose the screw if it bites. It also places the resisting force away from the side you're turning against (which is the resisting side without impact).

    Try that and get back to us. $20 in tools is better than a $50 visit to the gunsmith or a pretty chunk of money for a new receiver.
    quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. - Lucius Annaeus
    a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.

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    • #17
      ke6guj
      Moderator
      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
      • Nov 2003
      • 23725

      Originally posted by NeoWeird
      most EDMs need a start hole for the wire to pass through before it can be turned on to cut so that won't work.
      I am talking about "plunge EDM'ing", not "wire EDM". plunge EDM is used all the time to burn out broken bolts, drill bits, taps, etc.

      Here is an example of a SoCal company that used EDM to remove broken bolts, etc. http://www.boltguy.com/ericedm.html
      Last edited by ke6guj; 01-02-2010, 12:58 PM.
      Jack



      Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

      No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

      Comment

      • #18
        ILVSMOG
        insert clever title here
        CGN Contributor - Lifetime
        • Sep 2009
        • 611

        75% of the problem is the location of the offending screw. It's nearly impossible to get any kind of tool lined up in there correctly. Then, if you do get something in there, it's so close to the side of the receiver that there's almost no way to get any leverage on it, let alone without offseting the tool. It's a freaking mess. Compound the location issue with the fact that this junk screw has completely lost all its allen threads and this is a pretty crummy problem.

        Comment

        • #19
          NeoWeird
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2005
          • 3342

          Originally posted by ke6guj
          I am talking about "plunge EDM'ing", not "wire EDM". plunge EDM is used all the time to burn out broken bolts, drill bits, taps, etc.

          Here is an example of a SoCal company that used EDM to remove broken bolts, etc. http://www.boltguy.com/ericedm.html
          Oh, I know they exist, and that's why I said "most need a hole". What I meant was most shops won't have an EDM machine, and of those that do, most will require a hole. The poster may be lucky enough to be near a shop that has one, but I was giving advice on the general assumption that he wasn't one of the lucky few to be near a shop that had one and would do work like this.
          quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. - Lucius Annaeus
          a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.

          Comment

          • #20
            ke6guj
            Moderator
            CGN Contributor - Lifetime
            • Nov 2003
            • 23725

            I dunno, of the machine shops I've been in, more of them had a plunge EDM vs. a wire EDM. With plunge EDM being fairly easy to make, and being able to just mount it up in a drill press or mill, it was something that many shops had, if just to fix a "oops" that happen from time to time in the shop. Now, it has been years since I've been checked, and wire EDM has gotten more affordable, so perhaps plunge EDM machines have gone to the wayside and they've all gone ot wire machines.
            Jack



            Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

            No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

            Comment

            • #21
              NeoWeird
              Veteran Member
              • Dec 2005
              • 3342

              Originally posted by ke6guj
              I dunno, of the machine shops I've been in, more of them had a plunge EDM vs. a wire EDM. With plunge EDM being fairly easy to make, and being able to just mount it up in a drill press or mill, it was something that many shops had, if just to fix a "oops" that happen from time to time in the shop. Now, it has been years since I've been checked, and wire EDM has gotten more affordable, so perhaps plunge EDM machines have gone to the wayside and they've all gone ot wire machines.
              I think a lot of the problem is, it seems to me, that many general machine shops are going out of business or are converting over to production work. With the price of skilled labor, machine and tooling overhead, etc it's almost easier and in many cases cheaper to just replace parts than take them to a machine shop to be fixed or remade. CNC machines also help in this regard.

              Maybe it's just me, but it seems I see more tanked wire EDMs than any other EDM machine, then again though, maybe it's just me. Bu of course we're off topic so to get back on topic...

              Yes a plunge EDM would work. Maybe I'm wrong and they are easier to find than I original made them out to be. If you want to go the DIY yourself method, try ginding down the sides of the tool to give extra clearance. At that small it shouldn't need much torque to get it out of there. Again, you'll ruin the tool for general use but think of it as a specialty tool for just that type of weapon.
              quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. - Lucius Annaeus
              a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.

              Comment

              • #22
                ke6guj
                Moderator
                CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                • Nov 2003
                • 23725

                Originally posted by NeoWeird
                I think a lot of the problem is, it seems to me, that many general machine shops are going out of business or are converting over to production work. With the price of skilled labor, machine and tooling overhead, etc it's almost easier and in many cases cheaper to just replace parts than take them to a machine shop to be fixed or remade. CNC machines also help in this regard.
                true

                Maybe it's just me, but it seems I see more tanked wire EDMs than any other EDM machine, then again though, maybe it's just me. Bu of course we're off topic so to get back on topic...

                Yes a plunge EDM would work. Maybe I'm wrong and they are easier to find than I original made them out to be
                could be, I haven't needed to go to any machine shops recently, so the market may have moved on me.

                but if the OP gets to the point where he's totally fubar'ed the bolt and it isn't coming out for him no matter what, I think it would be a good idea to look for a shop that can plunge EDM, also called sinker EDM.

                Depending on where he is in Socal, here is another company specializing in bolt removal, http://www.brokentap.com/services.html
                Jack



                Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

                No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

                Comment

                • #23
                  mikeinla
                  CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                  CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 1897

                  Welcome to the club. I bought a used Fulton .308 lower with a stripped bolt

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    Sam .223
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 1576

                    if you can find a small ez out that should work, but you'll need to be really careful not scratch anything in the process.
                    5.56: reach out and touch someone.
                    458 SOCOM: reach out and knock someone down.

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                    • #25
                      ILVSMOG
                      insert clever title here
                      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 611

                      Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Unfortunately, the screw is now so damaged from my numerous (and increasingly aggressive) attempts to extract it that I'm afraid some prefessional intervention is going to be required. I'm getting ready to leave on vacation, so I'll get to stress over this all week. Swell.

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