Fab-10 question

[OldLandParkPat]

I was wondering if anyone knew if the fixed magazine in the Fab-10 can be unfixed, so you could simply break open the rifle, and install magazines in and out to reload instead of loading bullet by bullet?

I'm also curious if they will continue to manufacture the Fab-10 since it looks like OLL's are the way to go for a Cal legal AR-15?

[tenpercentfirearms]

The answer to your first question depends on what you consider "disassembly of the action". I wouldn't mess with it myself.

The answer to your second question is that sales have probably dropped quite a bit and who knows what the FAB-10 guy is doing now.

[maxicon]

The Fab 10 mag insert is riveted in, per "suggestion" of CaDOJ. The letter with this suggestion is floating around out there.

If you take out the rivet, it turns it into a removable magazine. Even though you need to break open the gun to remove it, this can be done without tools, so my guess is that it's technically illegal, but others may have a more nuanced interpretation.

I'd agree, it's not worth it. An OLL with pistol grip removed is both cheaper and easier, and an OLL with a fixed mag is cheaper and the same amount of trouble.

[OldLandParkPat]

Thanks for the thoughts.

I just got one, and was wondering if it would be a good idea or not. I'll probably build another OLL someday.

WHat happens when the magazine needs replaced? I wonder if it's a standard mag? If so, then the rivit would need drilled out.

[MonsterMan]

Evans receivers that he welds up does not have the mag 'pinned in'. It is only held in by the mag catch. His are cadoj approved. If you took out the bold catch, than you could just drop in new mags and fire away. I asked doj about it and they said because you have to break open the rifle to change the mag, it isn't a detachable magazine.

[OldLandParkPat]

Hmmmm... interesting MM.

Now I just have to find where the bolt catch is.. LOL!

This is my first AR, and I got an upper coming from the group buy, so I'll be learning bout' all about these beasts..

[Josh]

The Fab 10 mag insert is riveted in, per "suggestion" of CaDOJ. The letter with this suggestion is floating around out there.

If you take out the rivet, it turns it into a removable magazine. Even though you need to break open the gun to remove it, this can be done without tools, so my guess is that it's technically illegal, but others may have a more nuanced interpretation.

I'd agree, it's not worth it. An OLL with pistol grip removed is both cheaper and easier, and an OLL with a fixed mag is cheaper and the same amount of trouble.

Not true as the set screw still holds the mag body in place. Also it is only a partial magazine that comes out. It is a cut down 30rd mag body, follower and spring that are in there. The mag well actually forms part of the magazine.

[C.G.]

Not true as the set screw still holds the mag body in place. Also it is only a partial magazine that comes out. It is a cut down 30rd mag body, follower and spring that are in there. The mag well actually forms part of the magazine.

Exactly and so does the bolt catch. The rivet was placed there because on the older version of FAB-10 there was no bolt catch.

[bwiese]

I've heard several reports that 'fixed' mags on CA-approved FAB10s can be manhandled out without a tool.

Apparently a regular mag catch (and not a screw or locking device) is used, along with epoxy and a pin. At a recent Cow Palace gunshow, one vendor's FAB10 receiver's epoxy adhesive had cracked and the pin sheared off due to prospective customer mishandling of the 'fixed' mag and it detached without a tool.

It thus appears to be legally safer to use a DOJ-unapproved OLL with fixed mag rather than a DOJ-approved FAB10 with its "maybe fixed on a good day" mag.

The danger of the FAB10 rifles is that many of these rifles have quite a few evil features, and no one ever plans on using it in a legal gripless (say, MonsterMan) type of configuration.

[fairfaxjim]

Evans receivers that he welds up does not have the mag 'pinned in'. It is only held in by the mag catch. His are cadoj approved. If you took out the bold catch, than you could just drop in new mags and fire away. I asked doj about it and they said because you have to break open the rifle to change the mag, it isn't a detachable magazineT.

That's interesting, because my understanding is that when the FAB-10 was originally submitted to the DOJ they further required the rivet before they would issue the letter that it was OK. If you go by the letter of their regulations (5469(a)), the magazine could be sitting in there loose, as long as it required "disassembly of the firearm action" to load it.

I've heard several reports that 'fixed' mags on CA-approved FAB10s can be manhandled out without a tool.

Apparently a regular mag catch (and not a screw or locking device) is used, along with epoxy and a pin. At a recent Cow Palace gunshow, one vendor's FAB10 receiver's epoxy adhesive had cracked and the pin sheared off due to prospective customer mishandling of the 'fixed' mag and it detached without a tool.

There must be several versions of the FAB-10 out there - I know there are with and without bolt catch. I have one that has a large allen set screw threaded through the magwell into the magazine on the left side, and a pop rivet through the front of the magwell and the magazine on the front. There is no drilled holes or machined openings for a mag catch, a raised boss is cast into the magwell for the set screw threads. No epoxy that I can see anywhere. It is the style that does not have the bolt catch. It is also interesting in that any FAB-10's produced that do not match the exemplar that the DOJ received and approved would not be covered by the approval letter. I don't know if they ever bothered to get the model with the bolt catch approved, I have ever only seen one letter. It may not be covered by the original approval if it doesn't match the exemplar.

[AxonGap]

I was wondering if anyone knew if the fixed magazine in the Fab-10 can be unfixed, so you could simply break open the rifle, and install magazines in and out to reload instead of loading bullet by bullet?

I'm also curious if they will continue to manufacture the Fab-10 since it looks like OLL's are the way to go for a Cal legal AR-15?

[OldLandParkPat]

I have one that has a large allen set screw threaded through the magwell into the magazine on the left side, and a pop rivet through the front of the magwell and the magazine on the front. There is no drilled holes or machined openings for a mag catch, a raised boss is cast into the magwell for the set screw threads.

That is exactly how mine is.

The rivet is nothing but a pop rivet. I agree and would never bubba it, but there's no sign of epoxy evident, and I may be tempted to see if the allen head set screw backs out, and if it's not epoxyed in, I'll go ahead and drill out the pop rivet and see what's what.

I've got lots of pop rivets. It would seem to me, if Fab-10 wasn't required too epoxy, then why do it? How in the heeek would you replace the mag epoxy'd?

But a set screw and pop rivet would be an easy fix. I would design it that way if it were me.

Sorry for the bone head question but what is the button on the left side that depresses the magazine follower for?

[OldLandParkPat]

Here is a pic of a gentlemans Fab-10 recently sold here on the forum.

Mine is just like this one cept the protruding rectangle at about 2:00 from the mag set screw on mine has a lever button that depresses the magazine follower. What is that for, and what's it called?

Also to note my Fab-10's bout' 30 or so digits newer on the serial number.

[fairfaxjim]

Here is a pic of a gentlemans Fab-10 recently sold here on the forum.

Mine is just like this one cept the protruding rectangle at about 2:00 from the mag set screw on mine has a lever button that depresses the magazine follower. What is that for, and what's it called?

Also to note my Fab-10's bout' 30 or so digits newer on the serial number.

You have one with a bolt catch. When the magazine is empty the follower presses the catch up and holds the bolt carrier back. The earlier FAB-10's did not have the bolt catch.

[OldLandParkPat]

Is that an improvement?

So it holds the bolt back and open like on a Mini-14 when it's empty?