Registered AR

[Ronin6]

I have a friend who has a friend who knows someone with a registered AR15A2 who is asking if he can legally change the A2 Stock & A2 Pistol Grip to a B5 Collapsible Stock plus Ergo Grip. Also changing the Upper to A1 with 16? Barrel & Brake.

[Capybara]

1. Is your friend in California?
2. If so, is he running it featureless or mag locked?

[tacticalcity]

If it is registered in California as an Assault Weapon then he can do whatever he wants. There are no restrictions to how it has to be configured.

There are restrictions on traveling with it, and who can shoot it. No one under 18 and he is not allowed to "loan" it to anyone. Some people here think that means you can't let others even shoot it. I call BS on that. Prepare to take cover as they will balk at that so expect incoming. He cannot travel with it except to and from the shooting range. So it cannot be his trunk gun. If he decides to sell it, he has to sell it (the lower at least) outside of California. There is a process, I believe, to deregister it. Not sure how that works. Never done it. He should keep the letter he received from the AG confirming that rifle was registered as an AW with the rifle at all times as CYA. It is not required but law, but smart. LEOs are not going to take his word...if they decide to care.

If it is not registered as an AW in California then Capybara's questions are relevant. Do not confuse DROSing it at time of purchase with registering it. There was a whole separate process to register an AW. It was only an option for a limited time and most people did not do it. Or only did it for a few of their ARs and kept others as featureless or put the newly designed maglocks on them that required puling the rear pin to release the magazine. You can switch between featureless and the new maglocked configuration all you like and not break the law. Those are not considered AWs. But you must make sure it is maglocked BEFORE adding an "EVIL" feature.

[painkiller]

Regi?d bbaw?or earlier? how do you make a regi?d gun more assaulty?do with it as you please

[alpha_romeo_XV]

What about an AR is registered with CA? Isn't it the manufacturer, model, caliber and S/N? That is all on the lower receiver and that is all that is on the friend's registry letter. ergo only thing he can't change is the stripped lower. Some of mine were registered as multi caliber but not sure if registered as just 5.56 if thats an issue to change to another caliber. As long as he doesn't create a new problem like an SBR you can have at it and swap the other parts.

[tacticalcity]

You are correct when it comes to Registered AWs. Only the serialized lower cannot be changed. Everything else can. As far as I know nothing in the legislation prevents you from changing the caliber. Likewise, you can remove the bullet button and put on a normal magazine release. Why'd they make us submit pics of a completed rifle? My guess is two reasons. First, they were not sure how far they could go and what restrictions they could tack onto the law when developing it. Second, to financially keep people from buying and registering stripped lowers in bulk thereby resulting in tens to hundreds of times the number of new "assault weapons" in California. Thereby making them look bad for allowing them into the state when they were supposedly banned to begin with. After all, they did nothing about it and pretended the existing ban was still in place and effective for over a decade. This whole thing was entirely about appearances. They already knew featureless was a thing and this law did nothing to restrict these rifles from coming into the State. It was all about looking like they were "doing something" to their voting and donor base...who are about as smart as a box of crayons when it comes to guns. There was a lot of fear mongering on the part of politicians about this, and a lot of self-imposed unnecessary restrictions from the gun community and specifically calguns members surrounding registered AWs for a very long time. Based largely on interpretations as to why we had to listing specific details and why we had to submit pictures...and FUD from talking heads. Frankly there still is. Ask folks about whether or not you can put a pistol brace on an AR pistol. Nothing in the law specifically forbids it. Current accepted legal definition is that a brace is not a stock. But they insist, despite any actual evidence, that California will insist that it is. And since California has it's own separate SBR law from the Feds, insist you will go to jail for it. Nobody wants to be the test case of course. Hopefully we will never find out for sure. Because the only way we will know, is if California makes an example out of someone. They will NEVER tell you what you can do. And they will continue to be as vague as possible about what you cannot in order to scare you into self-compliance with whatever much scarier version of the actual regulations exist in our heads. I still run into people at the range who give me side-eye over my perfectly legal ARs both registered and neutered and think they are illegal. Which most likely is the reason they don't own a bunch of them themselves. California's scare tactics.

[ar15barrels]

1. Is your friend in California?
2. If so, is he running it featureless or mag locked?

An AR15A2 is a named assault weapon if it's a Colt.
Assuming OP means "registered as an AW" during ~1990 or ~2001, my vote is a standard mag release and any grip or stock he wants.

[akjunkie]

I have a friend who has a friend who knows someone with a registered AR15A2 who is asking if he can legally change the A2 Stock & A2 Pistol Grip to a B5 Collapsible Stock plus Ergo Grip. Also changing the Upper to A1 with 16? Barrel & Brake.

Registered AR under SB23 from 2001? Or 1989 Roberti Roos.

He can change whatever he wants.

[tacticalcity]

An AR15A2 is a named assault weapon if it's a Colt.
Assuming OP means "registered as an AW" during ~1990 or ~2001, my vote is a standard mag release and any grip or stock he wants.

Most likely means setup like an AR15A2. But would be pretty cool if were an old school Colt from before the original ban.

[SVT-40]

I have a friend who has a friend who knows someone with a registered AR15A2 who is asking if he can legally change the A2 Stock & A2 Pistol Grip to a B5 Collapsible Stock plus Ergo Grip. Also changing the Upper to A1 with 16? Barrel & Brake.

In reality it would be easier and cheaper to just buy a featureless 16" carbine with a fin grip.. Yes, he would have to fix the stock, but it would be much cheaper and easier than all of the above modifications.

[RickD427]

You are correct when it comes to Registered AWs. Only the serialized lower cannot be changed. Everything else can. As far as I know nothing in the legislation prevents you from changing the caliber. Likewise, you can remove the bullet button and put on a normal magazine release. Why'd they make us submit pics of a completed rifle? My guess is two reasons. First, they were not sure how far they could go and what restrictions they could tack onto the law when developing it. Second, to financially keep people from buying and registering stripped lowers in bulk thereby resulting in tens to hundreds of times the number of new "assault weapons" in California. Thereby making them look bad for allowing them into the state when they were supposedly banned to begin with. After all, they did nothing about it and pretended the existing ban was still in place and effective for over a decade. This whole thing was entirely about appearances. They already knew featureless was a thing and this law did nothing to restrict these rifles from coming into the State. It was all about looking like they were "doing something" to their voting and donor base...who are about as smart as a box of crayons when it comes to guns. There was a lot of fear mongering on the part of politicians about this, and a lot of self-imposed unnecessary restrictions from the gun community and specifically calguns members surrounding registered AWs for a very long time. Based largely on interpretations as to why we had to listing specific details and why we had to submit pictures...and FUD from talking heads. Frankly there still is. Ask folks about whether or not you can put a pistol brace on an AR pistol. Nothing in the law specifically forbids it. Current accepted legal definition is that a brace is not a stock. But they insist, despite any actual evidence, that California will insist that it is. And since California has it's own separate SBR law from the Feds, insist you will go to jail for it. Nobody wants to be the test case of course. Hopefully we will never find out for sure. Because the only way we will know, is if California makes an example out of someone. They will NEVER tell you what you can do. And they will continue to be as vague as possible about what you cannot in order to scare you into self-compliance with whatever much scarier version of the actual regulations exist in our heads. I still run into people at the range who give me side-eye over my perfectly legal ARs both registered and neutered and think they are illegal. Which most likely is the reason they don't own a bunch of them themselves. California's scare tactics.

Please be careful with this advice, with regard to the Bullet Button, you could find yourself facing felony charges for a violation of PC section 30605.

If you consider only a strict reading of the statutes only, then the above posting is entirely correct.

But you need to remember that statutes are interpreted by administrative regulation and that courts give deference to the regulations.

BBRAWs were registered by Make, Model, Serial Number, Caliber, and the "Bullet Button". PC section 23900 prohibits any change to the Make, Model or Serial Number of any firearm. There is no prohibition on a caliber change. The removal of the "Bullet Button" from an BBRAW is addressed in regulation. Here is the text, quoted in pertinent part, from 11CCR5477:

"The release mechanism for an ammunition feeding device on an assault weapon registered pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(1) shall not be changed after the assault weapon is registered. A weapon's eligibility for registration pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(1) depends, in part, on its release mechanism. Any alteration to the release mechanism converts the assault weapon into a different weapon from the one that was registered."

Under this regulation, if you get caught with a BBRAW where the "Bullet Button" has been removed, you can be charged with the possession of an unregistered Assault Weapon under PC 30605.

You're free to argue to your trial court that the statute does not prohibit the removal, but expect your nice prosecutor to argue the regulation. Since the courts grant deference to the regulation, guess who is gonna win?

[tacticalcity]

Please be careful with this advice, with regard to the Bullet Button, you could find yourself facing felony charges for a violation of PC section 30605.

If you consider only a strict reading of the statutes only, then the above posting is entirely correct.

But you need to remember that statutes are interpreted by administrative regulation and that courts give deference to the regulations.

BBRAWs were registered by Make, Model, Serial Number, Caliber, and the "Bullet Button". PC section 23900 prohibits any change to the Make, Model or Serial Number of any firearm. There is no prohibition on a caliber change. The removal of the "Bullet Button" from an BBRAW is addressed in regulation. Here is the text, quoted in pertinent part, from 11CCR5477:

"The release mechanism for an ammunition feeding device on an assault weapon registered pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(1) shall not be changed after the assault weapon is registered. A weapon's eligibility for registration pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(1) depends, in part, on its release mechanism. Any alteration to the release mechanism converts the assault weapon into a different weapon from the one that was registered."

Under this regulation, if you get caught with a BBRAW where the "Bullet Button" has been removed, you can be charged with the possession of an unregistered Assault Weapon under PC 30605.

You're free to argue to your trial court that the statute does not prohibit the removal, but expect your nice prosecutor to argue the regulation. Since the courts grant deference to the regulation, guess who is gonna win?

Interested, had been told removal of the BB was a non-issue last time I inquired about it on this forum. Thankfully many of us had Raddlocks and Vamfire Convertible versions on our rifles so nothing need be removed. Still, annoying.

[tacticalcity]

In reality it would be easier and cheaper to just buy a featureless 16" carbine with a fin grip.. Yes, he would have to fix the stock, but it would be much cheaper and easier than all of the above modifications.

Depends what he is going for. If he wants a specific GAU-5 clone, like many of us who issued them want, and he already has the correct upper receiver then the period correct barrel and handguard would be cheaper than a quality brand complete upper. But not by much. The retro stuff has gotten really pricey lately as its popularity has increased. Getting all the parts for my GAU-5 90's Era AR Pistol was crazy pricey. Could have bought the fanciest of modern uppers for what I paid. But it is clone correct for what I was issued.