Vector uzi .vs. Norinco 320 uzi pros&cons

[mlopez1933]

function of norinco 30 uzi's

as far as function goes do you need to modify any of the internal parts to make more reliable,and how are your weld"s on the norinco 320 uzi.most of the clones i have and seen, are not the best as far as weld's go.it looks like im going to have to settle for a norinco 320,with the wait time from vector is to long.i got a group industries receiver that im going to be putting together soon.any suggestion on finishing for the uzi.moly coat works good for my ak's sorry for the post being all over the place its 2am need some sleep.thanks

[aplinker]

as far as function goes do you need to modify any of the internal parts to make more reliable,and how are your weld"s on the norinco 320 uzi.most of the clones i have and seen, are not the best as far as weld's go.it looks like im going to have to settle for a norinco 320,with the wait time from vector is to long.i got a group industries receiver that im going to be putting together soon.any suggestion on finishing for the uzi.moly coat works good for my ak's sorry for the post being all over the place its 2am need some sleep.thanks

My welds aren't bad, but I don't look at the gun much. I just shoot it.

It shoots very well. I have maybe 1-2k through it with no issues. The only thing I can't do is load the mags to max - the 10rd mags will jam up the works if I do that. This is 100% a result of the mags being CA-legal and tight.

Moly coat would work great on it.

If you're looking or wanting beauty, skip the Norinco. If you want a gun that shoots and is fun, it's perfect.

At 6-700... what's not to love?

[lomalinda]

"I understand that you're thinking out loud, but you're dealing with bureaucracy here. This is not the place to make assumptions, use false logic, or jump to conclusions. It's cut and dry and everything is quite literal. Not to pick on you, but take a step back and REALLY take a look at what you're thinking before you continue down the path you're thinking."

Thanks for the good input.

I am, like you noted, just speculating on how Harrott might have changed things. I think your analysis out-did mine by a mile, though. I neglected to view the situation through the contraints of Harrott's series list in my thinking.

Again, I wasn't suggesting that I or anyone ought to test the law in the above manner. Half the fun of CG is the ability to come up with ideas and see how they fare when other people check them out, even if one's ideas turn out to be wrong, as mine did here.

[AJAX22]

This goes back to SERIES weapons. The CA DOJ can't say "Thompson series" and then ban EVERY type of weapon that LOOKS like the Thompson. This was NOT to limit the government, it was to denote that aesthetics alone does not ban a weapon. You can have something like an HK94 and a similar clone that runs on straight blowback (wasn't it the old Special Weapons that were straight blow back instead of roller locked?) and while they LOOK similar, their function is completely different and one could be so far out of spec that no original parts would fit it. So what then exists? A clone or an entirely new weapon that looks like the original?

The "Uzi" entry is quite different. It's not saying "Uzi type", "Uzi series", "Uzi-esque", "Uzi style", etc. It says "Uzi". Uzi is listed. Period. Is your gun an Uzi? Well if it says Uzi, then it is. It's pretty cut and dry. The AR/AK was different because they said "series". You could have a weapon, like a Stag Arms for example, that LOOKED like a listed weapon but was NOT an AR-15. It was a STAG-15. So it's NOT within the name of the series and it is almost guaranteed that their dimensions and tolerances are not 100% identical to those of the weapons in the AR-15 series (especially thanks to Colt modifying the AR-15 series to be as far from Mil-spec as possible). So it's an entirely different weapon.

I understand that you're thinking out loud, but you're dealing with bureaucracy here. This is not the place to make assumptions, use false logic, or jump to conclusions. It's cut and dry and everything is quite literal. Not to pick on you, but take a step back and REALLY take a look at what you're thinking before you continue down the path you're thinking.

Uzi is not part of the make or model, it was a moniker to describe the family of firearms. Strictly speaking it is NOT a legally restricted marking (other than copyright/trademark law) any more than the prancing pony on a colt is. you can mill it off, weld over it, alter the marking etc.... You can't change the manufacturer, the serial number, the model, or the importer, but you can pull the 'uzi' right off it if you feel like.

The importer is Action Arms, The manufacturer is IMI, UZI is a trade mark not a make/model/manufacturer/importer.


Once the Harrot decision was handed down specifically requiring that all assault weapons be banned by both make and model, they had ample opportunity to update/modify the list to address the issue, and they did not.

If you electropencil the word "UZI" on a norinco 320 or a Group industries gun is it now an assault weapon? Since an IMI Model A and an IMI Model B are not banned (but were marketed/engraved with the trademark UZI, which has no legal bearing)

What we think of as Uzi's are no different than the broad classification of a simanov pattern rifle, or a kalashinikov pattern rifle, or a stoner pattern rifle.... If it is not banned by make and model, then it is not banned.

There is exactly ONE semiautomatic firearm which contains the word 'UZI' in the model, and that is the "Uzi Pistol" commonly known as the micro uzi.

beyond that, uzi galil was a man, then it was a trademark.

[mlopez1933]

Ok if i get the norinco uzi with thumbhole stock with the handgrip filled in with hard resin so it can use detachable mags,and would like to take off the stock and replace in with a welded open position folding stock,is it possible to do on the norinco and would i have to put a BB on?and i know that the norinco has 3 tack weld on the berrel nut to pervent changeing the berrel,would i be in violation if i dremeled the tack weds off?

[tenbrook]

Get the pistol version. You can use Hi-Cap mags as well as the Bullet Button! I have a few "Mini" Uzi PISTOLS showing up at my FFL today. PM me if you want one. You could come check em out tonight if your in the Bay Area?

[aplinker]

Ok if i get the norinco uzi with thumbhole stock with the handgrip filled in with hard resin so it can use detachable mags,
GTG so far

and would like to take off the stock and replace in with a welded open position folding stock,is it possible to do on the norinco and would i have to put a BB on?
You need to comply with 922(r) and use a BB, as you'd have a pistol grip

and i know that the norinco has 3 tack weld on the berrel nut to pervent changeing the berrel,would i be in violation if i dremeled the tack weds off?
The welded barrel was for importation during the Fed ban. Hack away.

Bold

[aplinker]

Let me start by saying I absolutely agree with your analysis, but this is far more uncharted waters with infinitely less exposure than OLL ARs and AKs. Think back to OLLs pre-'06.

I would say you'd almost certainly be arrested. You would likely be charged. It's unlikely you would lose in court, and most likely charges would be dropped, as the DA started to realize they're going to lose.

Be prepared is all I'm saying.

Uzi is not part of the make or model, it was a moniker to describe the family of firearms. Strictly speaking it is NOT a legally restricted marking (other than copyright/trademark law) any more than the prancing pony on a colt is. you can mill it off, weld over it, alter the marking etc.... You can't change the manufacturer, the serial number, the model, or the importer, but you can pull the 'uzi' right off it if you feel like.

The importer is Action Arms, The manufacturer is IMI, UZI is a trade mark not a make/model/manufacturer/importer.


Once the Harrot decision was handed down specifically requiring that all assault weapons be banned by both make and model, they had ample opportunity to update/modify the list to address the issue, and they did not.

If you electropencil the word "UZI" on a norinco 320 or a Group industries gun is it now an assault weapon? Since an IMI Model A and an IMI Model B are not banned (but were marketed/engraved with the trademark UZI, which has no legal bearing)

What we think of as Uzi's are no different than the broad classification of a simanov pattern rifle, or a kalashinikov pattern rifle, or a stoner pattern rifle.... If it is not banned by make and model, then it is not banned.

There is exactly ONE semiautomatic firearm which contains the word 'UZI' in the model, and that is the "Uzi Pistol" commonly known as the micro uzi.

beyond that, uzi galil was a man, then it was a trademark.

[AJAX22]

Let me start by saying I absolutely agree with your analysis, but this is far more uncharted waters with infinitely less exposure than OLL ARs and AKs. Think back to OLLs pre-'06.

I would say you'd almost certainly be arrested. You would likely be charged. It's unlikely you would lose in court, and most likely charges would be dropped, as the DA started to realize they're going to lose.

Be prepared is all I'm saying.

I understand where you're coming from. I just think the time has come for this particular envelope to be pushed. (which is why I have a IMI Model A handgun getting reworked at vector right now)

This is however one OLL that I will be carrying all the requisite court cases/penal code sections around with at all times.

I will also be making up an 'idiots guide to IMI manufactured firearms' which outlines exactly why this is not illegal in CA to hand over if I ever get stopped/hassled.