AR FIVE SEVEN LEGALITY

[DanHuuN]

So I was at a unnamed location at an unknown time when this incident occurred.

Let clear one thing up first! I AM NOT THE NOSY GUY THAT WALKS UP TO SOMEONE AND LOOKS AT THEIR GUNS AND START GIVING THEM ADVICE ON WHAT LEGAL AND WHAT IS NOT.

IN THIS CASE, I WAS DOING A FRIEND A FAVOR BY HELPING OUT AT HIS RANGE AS AN R.O.

Anyways, so this guy walks in to shoot some handguns and long guns that he brought with him. As an R.O. I was checking for obstructions to the barrel, action, etc. He then pulled out his OLL with a bulletbutton installed but a AR FIVE SEVEN UPPER. I told him that the way it is configured is illegal, because of the pistol grip, collapsible stock, flash hider, AND DETACHABLE MAGAZINE! He proceeded to tell me that the rifle has a bullet button installed and that made it LEGAL! I calmly told him that the bulletbutton is designed to FIX a standard magazine that would be inserted through the magwell whereas this upper uses the P90 mags which are located on top of the receiver. Blah blah blah....

He told me that his FFL told him that it is perfectly legal in CALIFORNIA before he ordered it. OFCOURSE IT IS! WHEN IT ISN'T ATTACHED TO A LOWER WITH "EVIL FEATURES"

I told him unless he can find a way to LOCK the magazine and have to use a tool to remove it then he needs to put it on a FEATURELESS BUILD!

Nevertheless he was upset that I couldn't allow him to shoot the rifle at the range in that configuration. OH WELL!!!!

I told him to check out CALGUNS.NET to ask for advice about how to configure it legally as he may get more objective opinions rather than some R.O. at a range....blah blah blah

[CSDGuy]

If it's configured in the way I'd looked up, the mag does feed the upper from the top and empties are ejected down the magwell. He needs to fix the fix the P90 magazine (and it be 10 rounds or less)... Featureless build or not, unless he legally owned those magazines prior to the ban...

[RolinThundr]

Sounds like an FFL I don't want to do business with, unless what the FFL said and what the customer heard/interpreted are two different things. Interesting that the customer would think that adding a BB in a mag well he wouldn't be using to lock a mag that's never there somehow satisfies the non-detachable requirement. I think someone was trying to pull a fast one and blew it.

[Flying Bones]

I think you nailed it.

blah blah blah about the peviously owned mags. Thats between him and the law.

[munkeeboi]

You had the right info...luckily it was you that caught him instead of someone else. Also, I hope he had a 10 rd mag.

this is a FAIL of common sense by the user and the FFL if he gave that info. It's like taping a BB to the side of an AR instead of actually installing it and claiming that it has to be legal because it has a BB attached to it. There needs to be an understanding of the law and why things are legal before innocent people get in trouble.

[grammaton76]

You are correct here.

Range-clown is not.

Hopefully he can learn the error of his ways before the police educate him...

[Gio]

The question is can a Range tell you what not to shoot if it is out of OLL Legality and or Configuration? I was always under the understanding that Ranges could not hassle anyone at their range for shooting specific firearms. Oh well, I've been to a few ranges where people have asked me about my hi caps for my Glock. I've been at several ranges where RAW's are there and no one ever asked them anything or for papers. Oh well just me I guess, I think it is kinda childish to have to tell a person that they cannot shoot a OLL even if it is in violation. It is up to DOJ, LEO, someone else to bust them with a ill configured firearm in my book. Anyways it kinda sucks either way for the guy trying to use his new toy.

-Gio

[CSDGuy]

The question is can a Range tell you what not to shoot if it is out of OLL Legality and or Configuration? I was always under the understanding that Ranges could not hassle anyone at their range for shooting specific firearms. Oh well, I've been to a few ranges where people have asked me about my hi caps for my Glock. I've been at several ranges where RAW's are there and no one ever asked them anything or for papers. Oh well just me I guess, I think it is kinda childish to have to tell a person that they cannot shoot a OLL even if it is in violation. It is up to DOJ, LEO, someone else to bust them with a ill configured firearm in my book. Anyways it kinda sucks either way for the guy trying to use his new toy.

-Gio

They can refuse service.... Their range, their policy.

[CHS]

The question is can a Range tell you what not to shoot if it is out of OLL Legality and or Configuration? I was always under the understanding that Ranges could not hassle anyone at their range for shooting specific firearms. Oh well, I've been to a few ranges where people have asked me about my hi caps for my Glock. I've been at several ranges where RAW's are there and no one ever asked them anything or for papers. Oh well just me I guess, I think it is kinda childish to have to tell a person that they cannot shoot a OLL even if it is in violation. It is up to DOJ, LEO, someone else to bust them with a ill configured firearm in my book. Anyways it kinda sucks either way for the guy trying to use his new toy.

If someone is shooting an illegally configured unregistered assault weapon at a public range, I really do hope that the rangemasters get them the eff out of there with a quickness.

A range can absolutely refuse service to people shooting illegal firearms and it would be in their best legal interest to do so with extreme prejudice.

[DanHuuN]

The question is can a Range tell you what not to shoot if it is out of OLL Legality and or Configuration? I was always under the understanding that Ranges could not hassle anyone at their range for shooting specific firearms. Oh well, I've been to a few ranges where people have asked me about my hi caps for my Glock. I've been at several ranges where RAW's are there and no one ever asked them anything or for papers. Oh well just me I guess, I think it is kinda childish to have to tell a person that they cannot shoot a OLL even if it is in violation. It is up to DOJ, LEO, someone else to bust them with a ill configured firearm in my book. Anyways it kinda sucks either way for the guy trying to use his new toy.

-Gio

I see your point! However like the previous responses to your post, that is the reason! "Our range, our policy" I wasn't telling him that I am going to report him to DOJ or LEO just that the way he has it set up is illegal and because of that fact, WE "THE RANGE" will NOT harbor or allow the use of an illegally configured rifle.

As far as high-cap mags, we know that possession is not against the law! How you obtained those are NOT our problem! Now if a 19 or 20 y/o comes in with his fathers firearm with his father high-caps that may raise some eyebrows but it is still not our problem.

[porkchop]

wow, what an idiot. he has obviously missed the point of the law and needs to read it for himself. oll owners like this are dangerous to themselves because they go by word of mouth and take things for granted, getting themselves into something which they do not fully comprehend. sadly, ignorance of the law is not an excuse. the law is the law and it should be followed, but then again, i still don't understand why we're being denied the fundamental right to have functioning, non-handicapped arms as they're designed. i guess on the bright side, other nations are far more repressive..........for now

[aplinker]

If someone is shooting an illegally configured unregistered assault weapon at a public range, I really do hope that the rangemasters get them the eff out of there with a quickness.

A range can absolutely refuse service to people shooting illegal firearms and it would be in their best legal interest to do so with extreme prejudice.

The OPs situation is unique - he sees a BB, but not for the mag attached.

There are plenty of other configurations that it would be unclear whether the rifle is registered or a compliant OLL.

I know a good number of people who run OLLs as their reg AWs (military/LE exclusions). No one really wants to have to explain why their rifle is legal, or to be asked for papers.

Lastly, it's easy to blame a shop, but remember you're hearing the info 2nd hand through someone who's already shown themselves as stupid. If they're not smart enough to look up the info.... well...