G.I. type AR mags stored loaded for 30+ years...

[SVT-40]

File this under the things you find when you are a packrat...

So yesterday I went looking for a Chinese chest type AK magazine carrier. I have probably 25 big plastic bins crammed full of gun related stuff many from my days as a 01 type dealer back in the 80's.

So I found the Chinese chest rig. In the same bin I found two load bearing vests I used back in the 80's. One was a Vietnam era US G.I. type, and the other was a Israeli IDF "Ephod" LBV from the late 70's and early 80's.

Both vests were still loaded with all my gear including loaded 30 round military issue type AR-15 magazines.

So a total of 14 magazines 6 in the US LBV and 8 in the IDF LBV. A combination of Colt, Cooper, Adventure Line, Kay and one unk manufacturer.


They were loaded with four different brands of 55 grain 5.56 ammo. Two types of Korean "PS" and "PSD" ammo. some Squires Bingham Metallic Cartridge and some FNM ammo. All dated in the early 80's.

These mainly were kept in the trunk of my cars, and I often kept the IDF rig in my various PD vehicles.

I remember storing these back in the late 80's in my garage. I guess I forgot they contained loaded magazines.

So these magazines have been stored loaded for 30+ years...

I removed one round from four magazines so I could determine who made the ammo and it's date.

Next time I go out shooting I plan on shooting some of these. Will they all function? or will there be malfunctions due to being stored loaded for so long?

Pic's of the mags, ammo and LBV's

[superhondaz50]

There's a video on YouTube of a guy running 20+ year old loaded GI mags and they ran perfectly. You'll be gtg. That FNM ammo is good stuff. Those Adventureline mags are the best mags made imo. Never ever had a jam with one

[sigstroker]

SBMC? Is that Santa Barbara?

Never seen PS or PSD ammo. Obviously military with crimped and sealed primers.

Cooper mags were my favorite non-Colt mags. I called him once in Upland to buy a bunch of mags. Apparently he would sell to anyone because he would have sold me 100 at 6 bucks and change each.

[Turbinator]

Neat find, like having buried treasure in your own backyard!

Turby

[SVT-40]

SBMC? Is that Santa Barbara?

Never seen PS or PSD ammo. Obviously military with crimped and sealed primers.

Cooper mags were my favorite non-Colt mags. I called him once in Upland to buy a bunch of mags. Apparently he would sell to anyone because he would have sold me 100 at 6 bucks and change each.

The SBMC markings are Squires Bingham Metalic Cartridge. They were out of the Philippines.

The PS and PSD are Korean. The predecessor of PMC.

[Oceanbob]

Wow. Very nice. 🙏👍😎

[223556]

That’s freaking awesome. And to think my PMAGS are in danger of failing after a year stored loaded.
Would love to hear about live fire and function check of those mags. Those springs will finally feel relief.

[toiletfighter]

Thats a nice find SVT. I really dig the old Okay Ind. floor plates.

Im sure they're GTG, granted they were stored in a dry place. Have fun emptying them

[G-forceJunkie]

They will run fine. I have web gear and a claymore bag full of the same mags that were loaded in the mid 90's, i fully expect them to work just fine.

[200Apples]

SVT, how cool is that? That's like finding a few hundred dollars in a jacket pocket! or something...




Those mags should spit them there ca'atridges out just fine. We look forward to an update.

And to think my PMAGS are in danger of failing after a year stored loaded.

Did you store them loaded without the feed lip cap in place? Is that it?

I have some loaded Ruger Gunsite Scout mags loaded, too, and I use the magazine caps/tops... to reduce or eliminate mag spring pressure on the magazine's feed lips (the follower pushes a cartridge against the feed lips).

I can't imagine a Magpul P-mag potential for failure in any other way other than from outright abuse (dropped from height onto concrete or rock, stepped on, run over, etc).

[VolvoWrench]

Would love to hear more about this.

[golfish]

So cool..
They look brand new

[Killer Bee]

this is one of my favorite write up's on firearms springs..

read this reposted article from American Handgunner '03

Magazine spring madness: 'creep' to your 'elastic limit' to un-earth the urban legend of 'spring-set'

quotes don't travel well so..

American Handgunner
May-June, 2003
by John S. Layman


The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore.

The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?

Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.

Shameful Spring Benders

To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.

Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.

Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.

We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.

At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.

As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.

Trust Us

When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.

When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.

Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.

RELATED ARTICLE: Definitions

Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength.

Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs.

Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set.

Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit.

Magazine Recommendations

* Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction.

* If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs.

* If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed.

* If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it.

[stormvet]

Nice, I would not expect any problems from the ammo, mag body or springs. But those old GI followers, tilt monsters I’d switch them out.

[C.G.]

Hoarder.