New PCC Day! Range report Post #13

[highpower]

Atlantic has had a sale on these base model MKE clones of the HK SP5 (called the AP5 Core) and even though I needed one like I need another hole in my head, my lack of self control kicked in and I picked one up. These used to be imported by Zenith but apparently they had a falling out with the manufacturer and Century is the current importer. While this base model isn't exactly cheap @$1179.99, they are still the least expensive version of a civilian MP5 out there, beating out the PTR CT9 by a couple hundred dollars.

To those unfamiliar with MKE, they are a Turkish company that licensed the rights from HK to produce the MP5. Under the agreement, HK sold them the equipment and tooling to begin domestic production.

Before it showed up I bought a HK style forend, a couple extra magazines and a SB Tactical brace. Total price as shown with brace, forend and extra mags is $1542. I screwed up and I could have bought a version with the brace included for about $50 less than I paid. By the time I figured it out, the order was in and the brace and mags had already shipped. I still want to get some sort of an optic mount and sight, but I want to do some research before I buy anything.

I have heard some reviewers say that they didn't think these AP5'd weren't finished as nicely as the HK's, but to my eyes this is very nicely made, with welds that are at least as nice as those on my actual HK's.




A while back I picked up a CZ Scorpion Evo3 (another impulse buy) and tomorrow I am going to go to the range and do an A/B comparison.


So far I am pretty happy with the Holosun on the CZ, but I think I want to get something different for the AP5.

[Brandqn]

New PCC Day!

Looks fantastic! Do these need a fixed mag device to be compliant?

Edit: answered my own question, seeing what devices are available

[Capybara]

Those are a sexy pair of PCCs! Very nice. Let us know which you like shooting best.

[Capybara]

Looks fantastic! Do these need a fixed mag device to be compliant?

Assuming you live in California, note the OPs location. You aren't getting one of these here because they are braced pistols and not on the roster, unless you are roster exempt? These are generally only for people who live in America. And the OP will likely have to register these as SBRs in December after the ATF drops its latest tyranny.

[Brandqn]

Assuming you live in California, note the OPs location. You aren't getting one of these here because they are braced pistols and not on the roster, unless you are roster exempt? These are generally only for people who live in America. And the OP will likely have to register these as SBRs in December after the ATF drops its latest tyranny.

[GoatLovin]

Assuming you live in California, note the OPs location. You aren't getting one of these here because they are braced pistols and not on the roster, unless you are roster exempt? These are generally only for people who live in America. And the OP will likely have to register these as SBRs in December after the ATF drops its latest tyranny.

Even being roster exempt, the magazines would still need to be fixed.

[joefrank64k]

Nice pickup, OP!!

[k1dude]

I'll be interested to hear your A/B comparison.

[enorbit3]

I'll take the sp5 every day of the week over the Scorpion

[67Cuda]

What's Atlantics warranty vs CZs?

[Dan_Eastvale]

Assuming you live in California, note the OPs location. You aren't getting one of these here because they are braced pistols and not on the roster, unless you are roster exempt? These are generally only for people who live in America. And the OP will likely have to register these as SBRs in December after the ATF drops its latest tyranny.

Will they no longer be allowed for sale anywhere after Dec if ATF drops?
Only grandfathered?

[beanz2]

Will they no longer be allowed for sale anywhere after Dec if ATF drops?
Only grandfathered?

There has been no mention of grandfathering braces AFAIK. SBR them or run them without braces at all

Even the free SBR tax stamp mentioned during Trump's term is no longer discussed anymore. Why give gun owners a break?

[highpower]

I managed to make a relatively short trip out to the range today to do a quick break in and comparison with my CZ Scorpion EVO 3.

The test subjects:


I didn't get to take any pictures at the range as it was brutality hot and my camera overheated and shut off on me. So this is going to be a text only report.

Handling:

In stock form, both have somewhat awkward safeties, but the Scorpion is marginally easier to manipulate. The AP5's safety was very stiff and hard to reach when you have you hand on the grip. I had to take it down from my shoulder and shift it around in my hands in order to apply or disengage it. Perhaps when I have shot it more it will loosen up and be easier to use, but I will probably replace it with a aftermarket unit that is longer and easier to reach.

Mag changes on both are easy, but perhaps because I have more trigger time on the CZ, I find it faster to change magazines. Speaking of magazine changes, the CZ has a last round bolt hold open which overall makes it faster to get back into operation after running the mag dry


Shooting:

Recoil on the AP5 is less which makes target acquisition faster when shooting rapid fire, but in reality, both guns are heavy enough that the recoil from the 115 grain ammo I was using minimal. Speaking of ammo, I was using a mixture of different brands including some ancient China Sports 9mm that I picked up many years ago. Both were 100% reliable with whatever I ran through them even when mixing different brands in the magazines. I didn't have a ton of ammo but I did put about 250 rounds through each of them. All ammo was standard velocity 115 grain hard ball.

I would say that overall accuracy was compatible between the two of them. I took the RDS off of the CZ so I could do a apples to apples comparison of the factory sights. Both have different size apertures for different ranges and performed about the same for me.


Magazines:

The AP5 shipped with one magazine and I had ordered six more from Atlantic. they were out of the 30 round MKE magazines and I opted to get the POF mags that were still had available. At $109 + shipping for two, they came out to about $57 apiece. The CZ shipped with two 20 round mags and I bought several Magpul 35 rounders at $20 each. The Magpul's were recommended over on the CZ forum and I am quite happy with them.


Conclusion:

First let me make it perfectly clear that I am a recreational shooter and not trying to be some kind of operator. I am not going to be running shoot and scoot drills as both of my knees have had multiple operations and I have just slightly more mobility than a rock.



Both are quite fun to shoot and I feel that if you were doing some kind of class that uses a PCC, you would be well served by either one of them.



The AP5 as I received it was $1180 + $30 shipping. Add the SB Tactical brace and two extra magazines + shipping and the total comes to $1520.

Current Sold auctions on Gunbroker for New CZ Scorpion EVO 3's seem to average about $855 + shipping, so around $895 delivered to your FFL. Add the brace @$225 and a couple of magazines @$20 each equals roughly $1120 depending on the shipping charge for the stock and mags.



Is the AP5 worth the extra $400 over the CZ? That is a decision only you can make. As I see it from a purely dollar standpoint, the CZ is a better choice, but emotion is certainly a factor and I can say that the AP5 is a sexy beast. The HK fanboys think that anything but a real HK is beneath their notice, but the fit on finish on my AP5 is first rate and I am quite satisfied with my purchase.

[highpower]

RE; Braces and SBR. I am hoping that the recent Supreme Court ruling regarding government agencies passing regulations that have the effect of law, will make the ATF take a step back on the brace ruling. Of course with Beijing Biden and his group of dumbocrap thieves in charge, I am not going to hold my breath.

But if I have to SBR, so be it. If I do to go that route, I will get rid of the braces and go with a real stock on both of them. That is what I did with my AR and AK SBR's.

[theLBC]

operator af