AR beginner - Springfield Saint vs S&W M&P Sport II?

[TheNinja]

Awesome responses as always guys! I think buy the time I'd have to add a few upgrades to the M&P sport I'd be close to the same price so it comes down to which look I like better I think.

[xblax619]

i think the m&p sport was a good value at $600 but it seems that time has long passed. for close to $1k i would go for the saint. admittedly so i dont own either. having fondled all at the store i would pay the difference to get something much nicer. my vote is the saint victor.

[B2D]

There's always going to be the AR snobs who come out of the woodwork and no matter what you ask or what you ask about, they are going to question your manhood unless you do what they did and buy separate uppers and lowers and assemble your own.

Personally, I am not the biggest AR fan (nothing against them, just prefer other platforms...different strokes, right?). I just wanted something simple, affordable, and something to take to the range or a class without having to put something together myself and could care less what others thought of my choices. I also was pretty sure if I went the "put something together myself" route I'd end up spending more than I originally budgeted (which you most likely will) and would encounter issues along the way during the build process (which you most likely will). Also keep in mind you'll need to buy the tools required to properly assemble a rifle and would need to be factored into your overall budget. But like I said, I just wanted a simple and affordable "one and done" choice and have no grand plans for the rifle, I'm not an "operator" (and I'm guessing most people aren't either).

No offense to the builders, I just think it's a completely different thing altogether. Similar to the guys who take something simple like a Glock, a firearm that's simple, boring and affordable (but very proven and it just works) and try to reinvent the by wheel spending tons of money on stuff that really doesn't matter and really won't improve your skills as a shooter if you're a bad shot to begin with and/or have no clue how to run the firearm properly. Then after spending 2-3x what an off the shelf Glock costs they wonder why they still suck or they're having issues with their expensive firearm not running properly. In the several classes I've taken (handgun not rifle) the students who seem to have the most problems with their firearms during the class are the ones who built them or heavily modified them. I'm sure some of that translates over to rifles.

The M&P Sport II is a proven and very reliable rifle. The cork sniffers will trash talk and poo-poo it because it's not from a bougie, boutique company. It's like the Toyota Corolla of AR's. It's ain't sexy, you might get made fun of for driving it, but it's still super reliable transportation, will get you from point A to point B, and you wont go broke buying it and the cost to maintain it is probably close to nothing. Simple, effective and gets the job done. I like my Springfield Saint Victor and would spring for one of those over the Saint, too. It's very light, has some nice features and improvements over the Saint and a little "nicer" than the Sport II, but the Sport II is no slouch either.

Springfield Saint Victor:
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-...iant/p/1539698

My man... well said. *golf course claps*

[TheNinja]

Ya, definitely going featureless. It's odd b/c the website shows featureless but the description says maglock. I've read the comments and double checked to ensure it was featureless.

[TheNinja]

Either one will do you just fine. I agree 100% with Vinnie above.

You could browse the classifieds for gently used versions of either. You may be able to save some money to go towards ammo or training etc.

Where in the Bay Area are you located? I'm in Martinez/Pleasant Hill area.

I'm right near you then. Pleasant Hill / Walnut Creek.

[enorbit3]

Of your two choices, saint Victor

[BigPimping]

[XDJYo]

Whichever route you take, make sure to post back here with pics and range report.


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[crufflers]

I think S&W stuff is pretty nice. Their AR10 is built really well. M&P Sports have been around forever and were always a nice budget gun where you didn't give up anything except maybe a dust cover in the old days.

Springfield seems like a lot of flash and not out very long to be proven, but my buddy has one and he likes it. I think he overpaid. When he built a second rifle he picked up a PSA CHF with the Geissele tube.

Either is probably fine, but a LaRue accuracy special upper or PSA CHF or something from PK Firearms with your choice of barrel and tube would be what I'd do for the money, then build or buy a lower.

[crufflers]

I just looked at those listings at Sportsmans.... I hate those gas block / front sight rails... and you could get something with a real nice AL free-float hand guard for those prices.

It is tempting to grab something already setup with compliance parts, etc... I get it. Typically you would have to get a fingrip or similar, Magpul fixed Carbine stock, and twist off the birdcage on an upper but it is really not a big deal.

18" with rifle gas, Geissele tube

https://pkfirearms.com/node/13460

18 with intermediate gas, Noveske stuff

https://pkfirearms.com/noveske-18-inch-lightweight-noveske-nsr-15-rail

[Vinnie Boombatz]

[madland]

I'll pass on both and get a decent lower with an upper you would like.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15.html

^^^ Start here as one option. Complete build. Still have to pay transfer fees and get it CA compliant.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15/lowers/complete-lowers.html?stock_filter=Show+Only+In+Stock

^^^ Or look here for a complete lower. Transfer fees/compliance still applies. Find something you like and check if you can find it locally to avoid paying transfer fees. No tools needed.



Then look at the options below :

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15/barreled-upper-assemblies.html

^^ Premium uppers come with CHF barrels made by FN if I'm not mistaken.

https://www.riflegear.com/p-18765-bcm-bfh-145-enhanced-lw-midlength-complete-upper-w-mcmr-13.aspx

^^ (Included BCG and CH..barrel is also CHF)

https://bravocompanyusa.com/ar15-upper-receiver-groups/?sort=priceasc&_bc_fsnf=1&Barrel+Length=16in&Caliber=5.56+NATO&in_stock=1

^^ You might mess with different options here and once you add the BCG/CH you might be out for less money than the BCM at Riflegear. Not every choice here includes CHF barrel. Not the end of the world if it isn't. I didn't look but I doubt the SW or SA has a CHF barrel.
**The BCG from BCM is HPT/MPI tested. Not sure if all the PSA ones are or not.

Add a decent set of BUIS unless you are going straight optic. Once you go down the rabbit hole you never really come out. You keep adding and taking stuff off.
I've heard good and bad about PSA.**
Never heard anything bad about BCM.** I have a 14.5" out to 16" overall and love it. Mounted on a Mega Arms lower. Zero issues. I also have a complete Spikes Tactical and have had no problems there either. Spikes was my first AR. The BCM was my second. But it's a whole lot lighter too once I learned what I liked and built it accordingly. Buy once cry once within reason I always say. If you can afford to spend a bit more on quality it'll be worth it in the end. My .02
Good luck!!

[Fnfan]

The Saint is a better platform with more features for near the same price. Easy choice imo.

[Sparrow Dynamics]

Both are decent store rifles, but the prices seem high. Consider talking to a smaller local gun store to see if they have stripped lowers and complete uppers. Tell them you are fairly new to this and want to learn more about building lowers (which is easier than many realize)... HOPEFULLY, they will be a helpful resource and not talk down to you. If they aren't, then take your money elsewhere because they didn't earn it. YouTube is also helpful on how to assemble a lower.

You mentioned you might want to put our grip or Resurgent's grip on it. The Springfield Saint will NOT have enough room for your hand without replacing the stock. Toward the bottom of this article (just above the videos) there is an explanation of why. Hope it helps. https://sparrowdynamics.medium.com/f...e-4ad09bab9287

P.S. There is light at the end of the tunnel that Miller v. Bonta will be ruled in our favor and we can remove our featureless grips and go back to normal AR's. There is a small chance this could be later this year, but we suspect it won't be till next year. Either way, stay ready with tools and pistol grips in hand.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Or you can buy a Mini 14 and not have to do anything to it but shoot it.

Here's a pic of my AR. It is a "Bushmaster Carbon 15" I bought it 12 years ago for $530. It has a Carbon Fiber Receiver and weighed 5lbs 3 oz as shipped. 6 lbs now with the Magpul Furniture and Red Dot and Sights and Sling. It also has a Chrome Lined Barrel which is a good thing. I have put about 5000 rounds thru it and it is as accurate as any of the super duper AR's <MOA and yet was entry level priced. Don't spend a ton of money on your first AR, especially if they are going to confiscate all of them and give you $50 and the finger for your $3000 gun.

I hardly ever shoot it, but it's not like I don't know anything about AR's. Randy