Everyone thinks the SOCOM 16 is sooo cool...

[shark92651]

but can it stand up to a long term (few months to years) SHTF? Would you trust your life on this handy+powerful but noisy flashmaker?

Maybe someone should create a matrix that compares various firearms in SHTF and Zombie attacks and make it a sticky

[TonyNorCal]

Tony,

What differs in a SOCOM's gas system from a regular M1A?? How many parts change?

Not sure, I don't own a Socom. It's one of those things I've read in multiple place...gas system that's not compatible (at least partly) with USGI parts. Of course, I could be mistaken.

Either way, I don't really care for the rifle, lack of chrome, and the cast parts.

I know people love them and that's great...it's just not my thing

I think a Field Grade Garand that was made in 1943 and has been around the block a few times will ultimately still be more durable than a Socom.

But of course I am somewhat biased and like the unrefined nature of older military arms.

[JPglee1]

Not sure, I don't own a Socom. It's one of those things I've read in multiple place...gas system that's not compatible (at least partly) with USGI parts. .

The difference as I understand it is with the threads on the piston body/barrel connect are different size/pitch than a normal M1A


J

[bwiese]

I can live with cast parts, the op-rod is the main culprit for failure and I think the casting process has improved in quality over the years.

(You never hear of Ruger cast stuff blowing up!)

But the lack of chrome lining upsets me.

[Spaceghost]

You really need to join some forum for SHTF stuff, aren't you one of our zombie guys? A quick google lead me to all thingszombie.com. They have forums about all this kind of stuff you keep asking calguns about over and over until my eyes bleed. I won't speculate abut the quality of information you will get with the chaps from that site and the like, but I won't have to read your threads anymore with a rag to staunch the bleeding.

[mike100]

I have one..it's alright. In hindsight I'd rather have a usgi scout length (18"), but maybe I'll try to collect the whole set. ..or at least a standard model.

[CALI-gula]

but can it stand up to a long term (few months to years) SHTF? Would you trust your life on this handy+powerful but noisy flashmaker?

Yes. It's a proven design that is very reliable. It's much less susceptible to feed problems and jams. Many people think of the old fictitiously marketed "tankard" models, or the previously made "bush" versions, relating them to the SOCOM. However those were not made in a way to revise the gas system to make the shorter barrel set-up work well. So when the SOCOM I came out, too many people familiar with the latter, and the disappointments from those time and time again for people wanting a short M14, erroneously compared the SOCOM to those, figuring it to be the same configuration. I have never had any troubles with FTF or jams with either my Squad Scout or SOCOM versions, ever, with several hundred rounds through each.

Personally, I think the SOCOM I is a better value; in a SHTF situation, the extra rails of the II will just get in the way, hinder agility, and you are paying a lot extra for that addition. True, on the 4 rail SOCOM II the bottom rail is easily removable, but if you are going to remove it anyway... I would avoid the SOCOM II, save my money and buy a barely used SOCOM I - you are likely to find someone that got it on a lark or for the gee-whiz factor, or the novelty of it, and is now willing to let it go for about $1100, maybe having never shot it at all!

There have been a lot of people taking stabs at Springfield Armory Inc., lobbing unjustified doubt about the integrity of the SAI receivers. Those receivers will hold up as good as anything else, even if cast instead of forged. While I would never trust a cast aluminum AR receiver, I doubt even under hot .308 loads, will you ever blow up an SAI cast receiver. The magazines are more durable than other makes, and overall, the M1A is very durable. It can take the dirt, and a good beating, where other platforms might fail unbder the same.

I like the AR better merely because of the nifty engineering and ability to change it into many things, and all of my ARs are very reliable. However, they are still a complex design and even the basic AR has tight tolerances. I love ARs - but for reliability, I'm a realist; I would go with the M14 system. For even more reliability, I would go with an AK.

Any rifle is a noisy flashmaker, especially in CA - if SHTF, your last worry will be about that - you will want something as effective as possible per round, since you are one person army most likely to be on your lonesome. .308 tends to serve lead with dignity.

Also, the idea of SHTF is a joke, it no longer carries it's original application as thought of during the Cold War, where total nuclear destruction was the true SHTF.

Consider your definition of SHTF! In the 1800s what did that mean? All you might have needed was a Double Barrel Ithaca and two shells. This acronym means so much more in our current world than many of the old tin-foil bibles on survival written in the 1970's and 1980's used to describe. A list of SHTF scenarios during civil unrest and the Cold War may have presented 10 or so possibilities, and now, I tend to think the possibilities are 10 times that number due to terrorism, regional issues, and better knowledge of natural disasters and their frequency. An organized riot by illegal aliens in LA now, would make the Watts or Rodney King riots of the past look like unruly block-party barbecues that got out of hand.

Of course though, scenario dictates need. Just what does SHTF mean here? It can mean holed up under some unjust situation with a surprisingly un-American US government against you (lately, things look more and more like the McCarthy era every day), or a massive earthquake hit half the US, all is destroyed, and you have taken to the hills of ?????. If all is lost, and instead of any kind of need for defense, you are for some reason in the middle of nowhere and the need is food, a little .22LR 10/22 might be the better choice - you can carry over 500 rounds easily, which would give you plenty enough chances to gather rabbit or wild birds on a regular basis to feed yourself. .308 would be great for large game, but for survival, the meat would go bad too fast. Same could be said about .223 - not much left of small game when hit with that. Better to go for small game as you can eat them as you take them.

Scenario and type of SHTF should be considered. In that respect, one might find a pump shotgun to be the best tool.

Just what is SHTF now days? I think one needs an assortment of tools to meet the many possibilities, and trying to subscribe to one firearm to meet all is narrow thinking.


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[CalNRA]

wow, you do like talking about SHTF.

do you have food and water supplies too or just want to fanatasize about going on a "self-defense" spree in the absense of the law?

[50 Freak]

Exactly...Anything under 18" and it gets real similar to a 762x39, ballistically speaking.

You know, I hear that alot but really....

A 7.62x39 out of a 16 will spit out a 123 gr bullet at about 2300 fps....
A 7.62x51 out of a 16 will spit out a 147 gr bullet at about 2800 fps...

Plus the 7.62x51 will have a much long reach than the AK round. Not to mention it's going to do a lot more damage and has more penetration than the AK round at close ranges too.

That's a big difference in my book.

[CALI-gula]

SOCOM concept is nice.... BUT...

I will buy one when Springfield Armory includes a chrome-lined barrel.
Hell, I'll buy two. But not before then.....

I hear that! They probably invested more money on tooling up for and implementing the silly 4 rail system than if they had gone with chrome lining the barrels. I would trade in the 4 rail for chrome line any day.

But I guess the typical ninja-sword consumer can't "see" how cool a chrome-lined barrel is.

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[grammaton76]

But I guess the typical ninja-sword consumer can't "see" how cool a chrome-lined barrel is.

{obligatory}Hey, I buy ninja swords and... ooo, shinier barrel is cooler!{/obligatory}

Actually, while I own a bunch of silly swords and a couple good ones, a ninjato isn't in my inventory.

[NRAhighpowershooter]

SOCOM cool??? nope... just a marketing ploy by SA Inc to sever people from their money.

[JPglee1]

You know, I hear that alot but really....

A 7.62x39 out of a 16 will spit out a 123 gr bullet at about 2300 fps....
A 7.62x51 out of a 16 will spit out a 147 gr bullet at about 2800 fps...

Plus the 7.62x51 will have a much long reach than the AK round. Not to mention it's going to do a lot more damage and has more penetration than the AK round at close ranges too.

That's a big difference in my book.

Have you actually chrono'd it???

Cuz in real life a 16" .308 chronos out at closer to 2550fps.

My 21" FAL with SA surplus would only get 2720fps, real world test with a chrony chronograph.

16" SKS with 762x39 commercial ammo was 2420fps.

Yah the bullet is 20 grains heavier, so you do get a couple more foot-pounds of energy, but the point is the .308 isn't meant to be used in a sub 18" barrel.

IF you're gonna do that, run 110gr TAP ammo from Hornady so you can get your velocity back and get some good penetration.


I really see no purpouse in these things:



11 and 13" barrel for a .308? WTF for? LOL

Again, maybe with 110gr TAP ammo, or something, but to me its completely pointless.

13" barrel version weighs NINE pounds. An AR with a 11.5" barrel is around 6.25"...

To each his own I guess, to me .308 is for 18" barrels and 300+ yards. Basically, un realistic fighting distances and scenarios that would probably NOT pop up unless you live in the desert during SHTF. For urban combat I'd much rather have the AR-15 with a 11.5" barrel than a FAL with an 11" barrel.

You can carry 2x the ammo for the same weight, I mean you're giving up THREE pounds on the gun alone...


JP

[CALI-gula]

{obligatory}Hey, I buy ninja swords and... ooo, shinier barrel is cooler!{/obligatory}

Actually, while I own a bunch of silly swords and a couple good ones, a ninjato isn't in my inventory.

I guess I should have said mall-ninja sword, or now days, maybe even the term "gun-show ninja sword" might apply.

I've always like the idea of a .308 Carbine, having a G3 for many years. But I agree with NRAhighpowershooter - Springfield's marketing and doo-dads have really mucked up the idea, to the point of deplorable. Glancing through gun rags, I sometimes can't tell between the latest ads for the newest PS3 or X-Box shoot-em up video game versus Springfield's ads for the SOCOM.

I like my guns simple without a lot of crap to get in the way. What JP posted above is a utilitarian nightmare and half that stuff would cause more ills than good. Excess baggage taht someone says "you need this" which has been the heart of marketing at Mattel for over 40 years.

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[SemiAutoSam]

Would rather own one of these and pay 10 times the price of an average M1A or clone. As socomms will be around and will never have the collector value this rifle will have. This one stays in the safe but Ill take the DSA Para out and have a blast.

Just on a personal note I would call the FN FAL more reliable than the M1A.
Less parts to break and much better made.





Here is another toy