Upper suggestions under 16" + perm. pin muzzle device

[darkiceman56]

I've been looking around for a complete upper receiver with a barrel under 16 inches in length with a permanently pinned muzzle device to get it legally 16. I will be mostly shooting < 100 yards.

I have looked at the Noveske Infidel 13.7in upper, realized that they're sold out and no longer in production. Given if I did find one for sale, they're $1400 and up.

I found another alternative to the Infidel, which is the CMMG CAS (Combat Assault System). It has the same length as the infidel and has a krink type muzzle device permanently attached as well. However that too is out of stock.

With that, I'm guessing the 13.7 inch upper category is pretty much done for. I have also been looking at 14.5 uppers with pinned FH. I was thinking about buy a Noveske 14.5 upper from bravo company and buying the rest of the parts.

Are their any other suggestions for what i'm looking for?

[darkiceman56]

I have also looked at the CMMG upper's from mark's armory

[aplinker]

If you want a 13.7 with pinned KX3 you can do what I did - go custom.

Randall at ar15barrels just north of you could cut a barrel down, pin/weld, etc.

Heck, if you're really interested, drop me a PM... I've been thinking about going a different direction with that rifle and would consider selling the parts you'd need from it - basically all you'd need to add is the upper receiver.

There are a lot of 14.5" options out there. An SDI mid-length is a good choice. Colt de-registered 6921 upper, BCM, CMMG lightweight...

[darkiceman56]

How much did it cost to go custom?

[darkiceman56]

And what are some good options for 14.5" uppers available on the market right now?

[aplinker]

How much did it cost to go custom?

parts cost + some for labor. I don't recall exactly, but you can contact Randall for his pricing.

You'd want to cut/crown/thread, permanently attach, and maybe profile the barrel.

If you just cut/crown/thread & perm. attach, it's maybe $40 more than would be for a 14.5".

Best choices for 14.5" are Sabre, BCM, LMT, Colt, Noveske, CMMG...

ANY 16" carbine can be cut to 14.5".

[darkiceman56]

Alright cool. Thanks for the help and info uclaplinker!

[tacticalcity]

I'm a big fan of CMMG Uppers. I like the 14.7 with A2s because they give you a realistic looking M4gery. Those regular commercially available 16 + hider M4 barrels just look too goofy to me.

If you want to do a short barrelled upper, consider building an AR pistol. They are CA legal.

Here is the trick to doing them (as I understand it):

1) Order virgin stripped lower that has not be built into or designated as a rifle. It does not need to say pistol on the side of it, but many of them do. The key is, it has never been a rifle so you can legally DROS it and register it as a handgun instead of a rifle.
2) Order a bobsled single shot magzine (it needs to be single shot to DROS it without the thing being on the CA Approved Handgun roster...you can change it to a 10 round magazine later no problem and still be legal)
3) Order a bullet button.
4) Order a lower parts kit.
5) Order a pistol buffer kit (just to keep everybody happy, it does not need to be a pistol version according to the law, but it most people don't know that and they flip out when they see a regular one on their)
6) Talk the guy who bought the lower from into putting it together for you before he ships it to your FFL. If he won't try and talk your FFL into putting it together for you. If he won't you're gonna have to assemble it at his shop before he'll DROS it for you because it needs to be "single shot" before he can DROS it. That means it needs to be assembled with the bobsled inserted.

Technically you do not need to have an upper at this point. The lower is the gun. If your FFL is sort of ignorant about that part and insists upon it you can use any length upper for the DROS, it does not need to be a pistol length one.

If you have the funds of course, you can order the upper the same time you order the lower. Just make sure not to ship it to yourself if you already own a rifle lower. Believe it or not that is illegal because they consider it intent to build an SBR. Once you have the pistol lower, you can order any length upper you want and also own as many rifle lowers as you want. You're covered from that point on. Just don't install a pistol upper on the rifle lower, or you just broke the law.

AR pistols are a lot of fun. Obviously it would be better if we could own SBRs here, but they do the trick just fine!

[darkiceman56]

Ohh I will consider getting the AR pistol once more funds come my way...that and when i turn 21!

[aplinker]

I'm a big fan of CMMG Uppers. I like the 14.7 with A2s because they give you a realistic looking M4gery. Those regular commercially available 16 + hider M4 barrels just look too goofy to me.

If you want to do a short barrelled upper, consider building an AR pistol. They are CA legal.

Here is the trick to doing them (as I understand it):

1) Order virgin stripped lower that has not be built into or designated as a rifle. It does not need to say pistol on the side of it, but many of them do. The key is, it has never been a rifle so you can legally DROS it and register it as a handgun instead of a rifle.
2) Order a bobsled single shot magzine (it needs to be single shot to DROS it without the thing being on the CA Approved Handgun roster...you can change it to a 10 round magazine later no problem and still be legal)
3) Order a bullet button.
4) Order a lower parts kit.
5) Order a pistol buffer kit (just to keep everybody happy, it does not need to be a pistol version according to the law, but it most people don't know that and they flip out when they see a regular one on their)
6) Talk the guy who bought the lower from into putting it together for you before he ships it to your FFL. If he won't try and talk your FFL into putting it together for you. If he won't you're gonna have to assemble it at his shop before he'll DROS it for you because it needs to be "single shot" before he can DROS it. That means it needs to be assembled with the bobsled inserted.

Technically you do not need to have an upper at this point. The lower is the gun. If your FFL is sort of ignorant about that part and insists upon it you can use any length upper for the DROS, it does not need to be a pistol length one.

If you have the funds of course, you can order the upper the same time you order the lower. Just make sure not to ship it to yourself if you already own a rifle lower. Believe it or not that is illegal because they consider it intent to build an SBR. Once you have the pistol lower, you can order any length upper you want and also own as many rifle lowers as you want. You're covered from that point on. Just don't install a pistol upper on the rifle lower, or you just broke the law.

AR pistols are a lot of fun. Obviously it would be better if we could own SBRs here, but they do the trick just fine!

[darkiceman56]

Hmmm this is very interesting. How would I get around the NFA rules when buying 7" - 12.5" upper? Do I just tell the dealer I'm building an AR pistol?

Also I'm thinking of buying the Noveske N4 Light Carbine from Bravo Company. I would like to change the handguards for future accessories. I do like the rail system for N4 VIS carbine and how the top rail goes nearly the full length. What would be my best option?

[aplinker]

Hmmm this is very interesting. How would I get around the NFA rules when buying 7" - 12.5" upper? Do I just tell the dealer I'm building an AR pistol?

Also I'm thinking of buying the Noveske N4 Light Carbine from Bravo Company. I would like to change the handguards for future accessories. I do like the rail system for N4 VIS carbine and how the top rail goes nearly the full length. What would be my best option?

It sounds like you're all over the place and should spend a lot more time figuring out why you should and shouldn't make choices.

For example, the VIS is great for someone who needs to mount their optics far out along the rail, uses night vision in front of their optics and needs a removable lower rail for their M203. As a rail system it's heavy and expensive. It's also almost impossible to buy right now. VLTOR is slow to catch up.

Go look at photos and manufacturers' websites like Troy, VLTOR, Noveske, Daniel Defense, LMT, VTAC, JP, MSTN, etc.

Get a feel for the options, then ask specific questions.

I, personally, wouldn't buy a Noveske carbine since they make the RECCE light.

[darkiceman56]

Oh sorry I if i seemed all over the place.

Going back to upper selection, I've researched what upper receiver best fits my philosophy of use (POU), being moderately lightweight, able to use in SHTF scenario, and plinkering (around 100 yards as stated before).

I believe that the Noveske N4 Light Carbine Low-Profile Upper fits my general POU. However I do realize that its currently out of stock. So should I just wait for the general supply to "normalize" or search through private ads and gunbroker? Also are there any alternatives to the N4 light carbine?

[aplinker]

Oh sorry I if i seemed all over the place.

Going back to upper selection, I've researched what upper receiver best fits my philosophy of use (POU), being moderately lightweight, able to use in SHTF scenario, and plinkering (around 100 yards as stated before).

I believe that the Noveske N4 Light Carbine Low-Profile Upper fits my general POU. However I do realize that its currently out of stock. So should I just wait for the general supply to "normalize" or search through private ads and gunbroker? Also are there any alternatives to the N4 light carbine?

Sabre and CMMG