muzzle device/crush washer - noob questions

[ekkthree]

just installed a comp yesterday to complete my featureless conversion. i used an armorers wrench on a crush washer with upper receiver vice. not the most complicated mechanical procedure, but i'm very wary after the fact considering i didn't have/use a barrel vice and the amount of torque it required. i mean, i didn't use body weight or anything that severe, i was able to do it with the wrench's leverage. but it did take way more 'push' than i was anticipating. i used the torque/loosen/torque procedure to go the roughly 100 degrees to get it timed. so a little more than 1/4 rotation. if i had known how much torque it would take, i'd have just dropped it off for someone with the proper vice to do it for me. is it normal to be surprised at the amount of force it takes the first time? thoughts on having secured the upper and not the barrel?
for all other things mechanical, i'd just test it out to see if i screwed something up, but i'm keenly aware of the ridiculous amount of pressure going off inches from my face. mostly i wonder if i put too much torque on the barrel/receiver interface.

also, i did some simple googling and turned up this link and now i regret not just using washers and loctite.

https://precisionarmament.com/hrf_faq/never-use-crush-washers-installation/

after having already put it on, is it even worth removing and reinstalling with washers or a jam nut? or is that article more marketing than real life?

[Maulerrr]

It's fine. You're overthinking it.

[CoopsDad]

Just use a piece of leather in a vice to secure the barrel next time; don't use a vice on the upper for risk of deforming it. That's all I got.

[baih777]

It's normal to take that much force.
It's normal that it had to be rotated that far.
I keep a.couple of spare.washers in case one is too hard to turn.

[SanDiego619]

It's ok this time, but buy a cheap vise for next time. I got one from harbor freight for this exact reason. I had to really crank a few barrels to get muzzle devices on or off, and I think I even made a thread about it and got lots of good answers about why you should not do it the way you did (and I also did at first).

[ekkthree]

Thanks.

[FeuerFrei]

I have found that crush washers don't all crush at the same amount of torque.

So using a jam nut is now my default muzzle fob keeper on'er. It's re-usable.

[SanDiego619]

The ones I got take a lot of force for the initial crush, but after that, they are easier to turn.

[Usmc0844spare]

just installed a comp yesterday to complete my featureless conversion. i used an armorers wrench on a crush washer with upper receiver vice. not the most complicated mechanical procedure, but i'm very wary after the fact considering i didn't have/use a barrel vice and the amount of torque it required. i mean, i didn't use body weight or anything that severe, i was able to do it with the wrench's leverage. but it did take way more 'push' than i was anticipating. i used the torque/loosen/torque procedure to go the roughly 100 degrees to get it timed. so a little more than 1/4 rotation. if i had known how much torque it would take, i'd have just dropped it off for someone with the proper vice to do it for me. is it normal to be surprised at the amount of force it takes the first time? thoughts on having secured the upper and not the barrel?
for all other things mechanical, i'd just test it out to see if i screwed something up, but i'm keenly aware of the ridiculous amount of pressure going off inches from my face. mostly i wonder if i put too much torque on the barrel/receiver interface.

also, i did some simple googling and turned up this link and now i regret not just using washers and loctite.

https://precisionarmament.com/hrf_faq/never-use-crush-washers-installation/

after having already put it on, is it even worth removing and reinstalling with washers or a jam nut? or is that article more marketing than real life?

I used to read about the "simple easy cheap and effective" homemade barrel vice blocks made out of 2x4s and tried a couple times with ZERO success. The bbl still twisted in the 2x4s.

So, like you I sweated about installing muzzle devices using upper clamshell thingy.

Then I read something on another forum and gave the 2x4 thing another go. Before using the 2x4, add some powdered sugar to the grooves. IT WORKS PERFECTLY NOW. Somehow the powdered sugar (counter-intuitively for me) makes the wood grip the barrel MUCH better.

[1919_4_ME]

https://innovativeindustriesllc.com/jam-nut/

[Old Flash]

just installed a comp yesterday to complete my featureless conversion. i used an armorers wrench on a crush washer with upper receiver vice. not the most complicated mechanical procedure, but i'm very wary after the fact considering i didn't have/use a barrel vice and the amount of torque it required. i mean, i didn't use body weight or anything that severe, i was able to do it with the wrench's leverage. but it did take way more 'push' than i was anticipating. i used the torque/loosen/torque procedure to go the roughly 100 degrees to get it timed. so a little more than 1/4 rotation. if i had known how much torque it would take, i'd have just dropped it off for someone with the proper vice to do it for me. is it normal to be surprised at the amount of force it takes the first time? thoughts on having secured the upper and not the barrel?
for all other things mechanical, i'd just test it out to see if i screwed something up, but i'm keenly aware of the ridiculous amount of pressure going off inches from my face. mostly i wonder if i put too much torque on the barrel/receiver interface.

also, i did some simple googling and turned up this link and now i regret not just using washers and loctite.

https://precisionarmament.com/hrf_faq/never-use-crush-washers-installation/

after having already put it on, is it even worth removing and reinstalling with washers or a jam nut? or is that article more marketing than real life?

Just get some peel washers; peel off what you need to time your comp and tighten to about 30 ft lbs. Don't tighten too much or your accuracy might suffer.

Edit: I've used the clamshell for a long time when installing barrels and muzzle devices and never had an issue. YMMV. (Nowadays, I'm using a reaction rod.)

[1919_4_ME]

These also work great for holding your barrel.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NO-M-A-R-4-Universal-V-Groove-Bench-Vise-Barrel-Block-any-Caliber-223-308-556/123728608629?hash=item1cceccbd75:g:CesAAOSwLVZVuV4A:sc:USPSFirstClass!91784!US!-1

[dfletcher]

just installed a comp yesterday to complete my featureless conversion. i used an armorers wrench on a crush washer with upper receiver vice. not the most complicated mechanical procedure, but i'm very wary after the fact considering i didn't have/use a barrel vice and the amount of torque it required. i mean, i didn't use body weight or anything that severe, i was able to do it with the wrench's leverage. but it did take way more 'push' than i was anticipating. i used the torque/loosen/torque procedure to go the roughly 100 degrees to get it timed. so a little more than 1/4 rotation. if i had known how much torque it would take, i'd have just dropped it off for someone with the proper vice to do it for me. is it normal to be surprised at the amount of force it takes the first time? thoughts on having secured the upper and not the barrel?
for all other things mechanical, i'd just test it out to see if i screwed something up, but i'm keenly aware of the ridiculous amount of pressure going off inches from my face. mostly i wonder if i put too much torque on the barrel/receiver interface.

also, i did some simple googling and turned up this link and now i regret not just using washers and loctite.

https://precisionarmament.com/hrf_faq/never-use-crush-washers-installation/

after having already put it on, is it even worth removing and reinstalling with washers or a jam nut? or is that article more marketing than real life?

First time I attached a brake to a barrel I was sure I had stripped the threads - the "crush" part of crush washer hadn't quite sunk in. My luck, had to do a near 360 degree turn to time it up and didn't quite understand the feel of the washer flattening out a bit.

I suppose a very loose match between barrel threading and device could make for issues on a brake, not something I would worry about on a plain old AR for casual shooting.

[crufflers]

I prefer the crush washers to the jam type. For crush washers, there is a technique where you tighten as far as you can then loosen, then tighten past the previous stopping point, but using lithium / assembly grease helps a lot. I use PL-10 and it is typically pretty drama-free getting something timed.