convert AR rifle to pistol?

[rschu53]

I have an extra AR (AW registered).Can I convert it to a pistol legally?

[blind guardian]

[Cokebottle]

Both California law and Federal law, that would be manufacturing a Short Barreled Rifle.
You can't even do that in Free America without getting the NFA paperwork and paying $200.

[norcalniro]

You will need to do another ATF form to tell the ATF its PISTOL, or OTHER. All lowers sold here in CA are identified as "RIFLE" on the ATF form. other, free states either ask, or place OTHER on the form so you can do as you please with them.

But as i have read, CA wont sell lowers as PISTOL or OTHER, only way you can get a AR Pistol in CA is by a dealer or private sale of one already in the state.

[RickD427]

You will need to do another ATF form to tell the ATF its PISTOL, or OTHER. All lowers sold here in CA are identified as "RIFLE" on the ATF form. other, free states either ask, or place OTHER on the form so you can do as you please with them.

But as i have read, CA wont sell lowers as PISTOL or OTHER, only way you can get a AR Pistol in CA is by a dealer or private sale of one already in the state.

As a practical matter, you're quite correct.

But it is also technically possible, but also cost-prohibitive, to self-build one and then submit it to a DOJ-certified lab for the required testing.

[Cokebottle]

You will need to do another ATF form to tell the ATF its PISTOL, or OTHER. All lowers sold here in CA are identified as "RIFLE" on the ATF form. other, free states either ask, or place OTHER on the form so you can do as you please with them.

But as i have read, CA wont sell lowers as PISTOL or OTHER, only way you can get a AR Pistol in CA is by a dealer or private sale of one already in the state.

They are identified as "Other" on the 4473, but "Rifle" on the California DROS.
While the BATFE does not consider the DROS to establish the lower as a "rifle", they do consider it to be an SBR if the pistol is made from a rifle, i.e. if you have ever had an upper attached that is over 16" *and* had a shoulder stock attached.

From a legal standpoint, if you purchased a stripped lower in California and never built it out, then you could move to a "free state" and configure it as a pistol.

That would not be applicable in this case as OP stated that it is RAW, and to be RAW it must have been a complete bullet-button equipped Semiautomatic Centerfire Rifle, thus, OP has have both created *and* legally documented with the DOJ that he has a "rifle".

[Cokebottle]

But it is also technically possible, but also cost-prohibitive, to self-build one and then submit it to a DOJ-certified lab for the required testing.

But not within California with a lower that was put into the DROS system as "Rifle"
As an 07FFL, it would be possible to machine an 80% and submit it for roster testing.

[SmallShark]

in CA, once a rifle, always a rifle.

but, you can convert a pistol into rifle, never go back

[Quiet]

I have an extra AR (AW registered).Can I convert it to a pistol legally?

Under both Federal and CA laws, the resulting firearm will be considered a SBR.

Therefore...

In order to legally be able to make a SBR, you will first need to obtain a CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit (DWP) for SBR.
BATFE will not approve a Form 1 or 4 for a SBR to a CA resident, unless they have a valid CA DOJ DWP for SBR.

Currently, the only acceptable "good cause" for issuance of a DWP for SBR are:
1. To import, make, and transfer to Gov/Mil/LE agencies. [PC 33300(b)(2)]
2. For use as a prop in the movie/tv industry. [PC 33300(b)(1)]

If you meet the "good cause" requirement and get issued a DWP for SBR, you can then submit a Form 1 to make your RAW into a SBR.

After BATFE approves your Form 1, you can then legally make your RAW into a SBR.
Afterwhich; you will need to register the firearm (again) with CA DOJ as a Dangerous Weapon, need to register all the vehicles that will be used to transport the SBR, and need to register all the locations that will be used to store the SBR.

Transporting the SBR in a non-registered vehicle or storing the SBR in a non-registered location is grounds for permit revocation and your inventory confiscated.
Using the SBR in a method that is beyond the "good cause" for DWP issuance is grounds for permit revocation and your inventory confiscated.
^Examples... recreational range (plinking/target shooting) use and self defense.

The DWP for SBR needs to be renewed annually and you are subject to annual CA DOJ BOF compliance inspection audits.

[RickD427]

But not within California with a lower that was put into the DROS system as "Rifle"
As an 07FFL, it would be possible to machine an 80% and submit it for roster testing.

Cokebottle,

I probably shoulda been more specific in my posting. When I chose the words "self build" I meant that to mean that the lower receiver is one actually built by the subject. Not from an receiver that was purchased and DROS'd.

You're right. Once California has DROS'd a receiver as anything other than a pistol, that receiver cannot be outfitted as a pistol.

It's not necessary to be an 07FFL in order to submit weapons for DOJ testing. It is legally possible, but prohibitively expensive, for an unlicensed subject to do the same. Please refer to Penal Code section 31905(a) and note the absence of "Commercial" or "Licensed" with regard to the manufacturer of the submitted weapons.

[Cokebottle]

It's not necessary to be an 07FFL in order to submit weapons for DOJ testing. It is legally possible, but prohibitively expensive, for an unlicensed subject to do the same. Please refer to Penal Code section 31905(a) and note the absence of "Commercial" or "Licensed" with regard to the manufacturer of the submitted weapons.

I rethought the 07 comment after I was out the door
But yes... difficult and expensive... and tedious given that the final lower, and the samples sent for testing, would need to go through the UNSUB serial number request process. A non-07 applying for four UNSUB numbers for AR frames might raise some eyebrows (or flat out denial).

[Cokebottle]

in CA, once a rifle, always a rifle.

but, you can convert a pistol into rifle, never go back

In Free America you actually can go back and forth.
NFA allows conversion to and from rifle using a "kit" designed for use with the pistol.
No case law has established that a 16" upper and buttstock does not constitute a "kit"

But the build must begin life as a pistol.

[SmallShark]

the whole SBR SBS things are just so stupid.

[Quiet]

the whole SBR SBS things are just so stupid.

True.

Now make a time machine and go back to 1934 and tell Congress that.

[mshill]

the whole SBR SBS things are just so stupid.

Isn't that the truth. I have AR pistols with 10.5 inch and 8 inch barrels. For all intents and purposes these are short barreled rifles, to add a buttstock I have to pay $200 and be known to the government. Way stupid.