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**Paul1960** · 10-05-2006, 9:38 PM

I love the Leopolds.

The easiest way to get on paper is to take the upper off your rifle, clamp it in a cleaning vice, wait until dark and then peer down the barrel and a distant street light. Now use the adjustments on the scope to bring the crosshairs onto the street light. That gets me within 3-4" at 100 yards most shots at it.

I recommend 2.7" high at 100 yards with your choice of ammo. That's puts Remington 55 grain FMJ at zero at 200 yards and down 1 foot at 300 yards. Figure about two feet and change at 400 yards. That's based on my 1:9 twist 18" barrels. With a 21" barrel the bullet is moving a bit faster so I zero 2.4" high and get similar results.

If you're making a paper puncher then zero for your known range like 100 yards. Mark that point on the scope - some have the ability to pull the zero up to calibrate the zero for your rifle. Next shoot at other ranges ... 200, 300, 400 etc and record your come-up clicks from your 100 yard zero. Make yourself a chart - or better yet memorize those clicks - and return your scope to 100 yards after use.

I use a mil-dot scope which allows for range finding and bullet drop compensation on my .308 bolt gun. My theory on the .223 is that any target I'll be shooting at will be shooting back at me so the battle zero procedure above puts me into center of bad guy from the barrel out to 250 yards ... beyond that I have to give a bit of hold over.

For "sniping" you should look at a fixed 10x scope with a mil-dot retical.

**chickenfried** · 10-05-2006, 9:45 PM

Better title on this one. My first thought on the other thread was why are you posting then?

Zero Help Needed

**anotherted** · 10-05-2006, 9:46 PM

There is no real "correct" way to zero a scope. You will however save ammunition by sighting in your scope at 50yds v. 100 yds (sometimes its hard to even get one on the paper with a brand new scope). The process (or concept) is exactly the same as it was to get your irons squared away. Bench your rifle (or if you are comfortable with a sling in the prone position do it this way -- its good practice) and squeeze one off then adjust your windage and elevation accordingly. If you have fingertip elevation and windage adjustments all the better, if not its time to bust out the flathead.

Dont waste your time buying $1,000,000 worth of GMM or Black Hills, just get a box of what you are planning on shooting regularly -- surp, etc. it only makes sense to sight in your scope for what your actually going shoot out of the monster its mounted on. Dont bother with the wait for your barrel to cool down bit either, just sight the thing in and be done with it; this isnt microsurgery here. Dont worry about cleaning your barrel either -- are you breaking in a new barrel or sighting in your scope??

For the level of experience that it sounds like you have (no offense -- none of us were born with a rifle in our paws) that scope will work fine to get down the basics. When you really need better glass you will know.

Take it slow and make it a learning experience. Have fun.

Ted

**Paul1960** · 10-05-2006, 9:47 PM

The Tijicons are more for the designated rifleman's role rather than a sniper. The short 1x to 4x scopes allow for fast and accurate shots beyond iron sight range.

Here's my favorite pair of .223 rifles set up for the short-range use. The designated rifleman's weapon above sports a Trijicon - mine's a 3x compact with crosshairs - and a nice Jewell tigger which works perfectly down to a few ounces.

The CQB has a Comp ML2 with fixed front and rear sights.

Both rifles carry extra batteries for that Aimpoint red-dot-o-death and feature iron sights that are instantly ready on the carbine and a head motion away on the rifle. You'll note that the rifle has its scope mounted a bit further back than the stock mounting hole as these scopes have very short eye reliefs.

***Pthfndr*** · 10-05-2006, 10:02 PM

What range you zero a scope at depends on the type of scope - red dot, Acog, or regular magnification scope - how far you plan to shoot - 100 yard, or out to 1000 yards - and what kind of shooting you'l do - just plinking, 3 gun competition, varmint or deer hunting, or tactical use.

The scope you chose may not be the best, but sometimes ya get lucky. For truly precision shooting the commonly accepted rule of thumb is to spend as much on the glass as you do on the firearm. But it's not always neccesary to do that.

The reason to start your zeroing process at 25 yards is to make sure you are on paper while using the minimum amount of ammo. This true regardless of the firearm, optic, or ammo used. It's pretty hard to miss a 2'x2' piece of paper at 25 yards.......But it does happen

I won't recommend a particular scope because there are just too many choices in too many price ranges. And you can ask 20 different people and get 20 different recommendations. All of them valid.

My personal recommendation for the zeroing process is this:
1) When you get to the range, seperate the upper from the lower. Set out your target at 25 yards. Set the upper on some sandbags or other suitable. steady rest and remove the bolt/bolt carrier assembly. Looking through the barrel, line up the barrel bore on the target. Then without moving the upper look through the scope. If the reticle isn't lined up at the same spot as the barrel bore, adjust the windage and elevation knobs to do so. Remember to check the sight picture through the bore occasionally as you make adjustments to make sure you're still lined up. Once you're pretty close (it doesn't have to be perfect - remember you're only shooting 25 yards) put the bolt back in and reinstall the upper to the lower.

2) Shoot three rounds with the rifle on the rests. Taking care to make sure your cheek weld is the same for each shot (that's your head position in relation to the buttstock and scope. Moving your head closer or farther, or side to side can change "how" you see the target and cause your shots to change POI - point of impact). Look and see where your shots hit, and make adjustments as needed. I recommend adjusting only the windage first and then taking another 1 or 2 shots. Then adjust again as needed. Unless your elevation is off by a gross amount get the windage centered first. Then shoot 1 or 2 rounds and adjust the elevation. At 25 yards your elevation should be set so your POI is 2-3 inches low of center.

3) Once you are zeroed at 25 yards move your target to 100 yards and go through the process again. Unless there are problems with the scope, mounts, or user error (turning knobs the wrong way

), you can easily get a 100 yard zero using less than 20 rounds.

This is just for a 100 yard zero. With a red dot scope you might want it zeroed at a shorter distance. Keep in mind that different ammo will have a different zero. Once you're optic is zeroed at the distance of choice changing ammo will most likely give a different POI. Also keep in mind the mil spec / surplus ammo is only required to hold to 4 MOA (minute of angle) or 4 inches at 100 yards. So don't be disappointed if your group size is in the 1-3" range with milsurp ammo. The majority of the people who say they can shoot sub 1 inch groups consistently at 100 yards with mil spec ammo are telling big fish stories.

That's my $.02 FWIW. Others with have other methods.

**JesseXXX** · 10-05-2006, 10:24 PM

You guys are like the big brothers I never had....that why I LOVE this forum...... people are humble and ALWAYS ready to help....

I'll be "possible" at Burro Canyon...this Saturday or Sunday.... I'll be in the black 1995 Impala SS with Black 20 wheels... if you see me, say hello...

Jesse!

PS: I like those TRIJICONS scopes.... the scope I have currently is 4X30 TAR30... I'll be using probably Wolf Ammo... lastly, which grain is better 55 or the other...I believe 62... they're both FMJ....

www.turners.com (I work at the Redondo Beach Store)

***Pthfndr*** · 10-06-2006, 1:43 AM

Originally posted by JesseXXX

I'll be using probably Wolf Ammo... lastly, which grain is better 55 or the other...I believe 62... they're both FMJ....

www.turners.com (I work at the Redondo Beach Store)

Wolf is for blasting / plinking ammo. More often than not it's terribly inconsistent regardless of which grain bullet you're using.

Milsurp M193 or M855 is better, or Winchester white box (the Q3131A) is good.

ts · 10-06-2006, 4:22 AM

Originally posted by JesseXXX

I'll be "possible" at Burro Canyon...this Saturday or Sunday.... I'll be in the black 1995 Impala SS with Black 20 wheels... if you see me, say hello...

Jesse!
www.turners.com (I work at the Redondo Beach Store)

Ha - well isn't that funny. I drove up there to see if you guys still had that sale on the Rem 870 and I turn to the friend I was with and I pointed out your car in the parking lot, "look at that black Impala on dubs with the Bushmaster sticker on it"

**JesseXXX** · 10-06-2006, 8:25 AM

yup....

Yup... Thats me :O) ... TonyAyo.... come in and intro yourself buddy.... I'll be there today....

**Whitesmoke** · 10-06-2006, 9:36 AM

Originally posted by Pthfndr

So don't be disappointed if your group size is in the 1-3" range with milsurp ammo. The majority of the people who say they can shoot sub 1 inch groups consistently at 100 yards with mil spec ammo are telling big fish stories.

That's my $.02 FWIW. Others with have other methods.

I think all of what pathfinder says is pretty accurate. My M1a is set up with a leupold 4.5-14x50mm mil-dot. The rifle seriously shoots .75-1 Moa with my handloads. About 1 Moa with Federal GMMM. And about 2.5 MOA with Austrailian F4 surplus (which is suppossed to be fairly accurate stuff).

**JesseXXX** · 10-06-2006, 10:13 AM

wow...

Wow..... That's pretty good..... I'm really digging those TRIJICON's scopes....but wow.. they're expensive.......

**bwiese** · 10-06-2006, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by JesseXXX

Wow..... That's pretty good..... I'm really digging those TRIJICON's scopes....but wow.. they're expensive.......

I know, I have 3. One of 'em cost more than I paid for any of my ARs, the other was about the same price as most of my ARs.

Surprisingly I got my Elcan in 2000 for $425. If you can find them new in box, they're $700+ now.

**JesseXXX** · 10-06-2006, 11:57 AM

wow

Wow....Bill..... is there anything close like them out in the market....?

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