Battlefield Zero

[Swiss]

I recently purchased a S&W MP15 , now with LMT front and rear sights, and ordered a bunch of manuals from Midway to learn more about the rifle. I'm reading "Rifle Marksmanship" by the Marine Corp and it describes how to set your battlefield zero (BZO).

In order to set your BZO, you need either a 300yd or 36 yd distance to target and these target distances aren't really an option at my typical local range. Can anyone advise me on an alternate, accepted method of setting the BZO? The goal is to allow accurate use of the elevation dial on the rear sight.

Also, even if the 300/36 yd distances were available, does the fact that my rifle has a 16" bull barrel affect this procedure in any way?

Thanks!

[sb_pete]

Well, you could just use the M16A2 25 Meter zeroing target.

I think there is a difference between the Army and Marine battlefield zero, not sure though.

This target was originally intended for a 20" bbl. Not sure if it was intended for m193 or m855, but changing bbl length to 16" or changing ammo will lead to a slight change in things. I could be wrong, but I really don't think trajectory is going to change enough to matter between zero and 300m between a 20" and a 16" bbl. Battlefield zero ain't the most precise setup in the world anyways.

[J_Rock]

Just use the 50 yard zero and stop worrying about it. It gives you + or - 2" all the way out to 225 yards.

[CHS]

What kind of range are you going to where you don't have 36yd's or 25yds (for a 25/200) of shooting distance????!

[sb_pete]

Well, he only said no 36yd range, not no 25yd.

I'm thinking he's either got only an indoor range locally with less than 25 yds, OR he means that there isn't a spot to fix the targets into at 36 yds. Lots of ranges only have holes in the ground or concrete slots for targets set at 25, 50, and 100 yds. Seems a bit silly not to be able to just put a target with a stand alone base at 36 yds, but *shrug*

[CHS]

I'm thinking he's either got only an indoor range locally with less than 25 yds, OR he means that there isn't a spot to fix the targets into at 36 yds. Lots of ranges only have holes in the ground or concrete slots for targets set at 25, 50, and 100 yds. Seems a bit silly not to be able to just put a target with a stand alone base at 36 yds, but *shrug*

I've never seen an outdoor range that didn't let you bring your own target stand. That fixes the "no holes in the ground at 36yd's" issue.

If it's an indoor range, just do the 25/200 zero. Most indoor ranges that allow rifle are 25yd's.

[CHS]

I've never seen an outdoor range that didn't let you bring your own target stand. That fixes the "no holes in the ground at 36yd's" issue.

Ok, I just re-read the OP's message/info.

OP: You're in Contra Costa County. Drive up to Chabot Gun Club and do the 25/200 zero. They have target hangers at 25yd's. It's an outdoor range. After you're done zero'ing, you can play out to 100yd's.

In fact, there are a couple of RO's on this forum that might even let you go to the other side where they actually have out to 200 (or more, it's been a while for me) yards.

[Technical Ted]

Just use the 50 yard zero and stop worrying about it. It gives you + or - 2" all the way out to 225 yards.

+1 the 50 yd IBZ is the way to go.

[Timmay]

+1 the 50 yd IBZ is the way to go.

The Army way to go....

[Suvorov]

Just use the 50 yard zero and stop worrying about it. It gives you + or - 2" all the way out to 225 yards.

+1

For us civilian or LE types, there really is no use in using a battlesight zero. The idea behind them is to be able to engage and hit a human out to 300 meters without adjusting a center of mass point of aim. SWAT magazine did an excellent article about it a few months ago. I always used what I was trained with, which was the ARMY battlesight zero, but it seems that the Marine battlesight is actually a little better. Still, none of them provide for precision fire which is the problem. While the A2 has an adjustable rear sight, the Battlesight concept is designed so that the soldier does not have to monkey with the sight in combat.

For most situations, we are much better served with either a 50/200 yard zero or a 100 yard zero. Figure if you are in an urban or suburban setting, most targets you would ever engage are in that range and in the odd chance you need to go out a little further, you can always use hold over (which you would be needing to do with a battlesight zero to get precision anyhow). As mentioned zeroing at 50 yards will put you on at 50 yards and approximately 200 yards.

If you are mostly concerned about shooting on a range or for match type shooting, I would go with a 100 yard zero. This is also the zero that SOD-Delta uses. Zero your rifle at 100 yards using the front sight with the rear sight on the 3/8 or 3/6 setting. After that, any elevation adjustments you need to make can be made with your rear sight. Assuming that you have an A2 style rear sight, each click up is approximately 1 inch at 100 yards (if you have a match rear sight is is 1/2 inch). By knowing your ballistics for your particular round, you can then use the rear sight to adjust for distances greater than 100 yards.

If you cant measure off 36 yards for the Marine Battlesight, you can use the Army Battlesight by sighting in at 25 yards with the rear sight at the 3/8 setting +1 click. Shoot for point of aim at 25 yards adjusting with the front sight. Once done, return your rear sight to the 3/8 setting. Keep in mind that this method will NOT give you a true Army Battlesight Zero as 25 yards is about 10% less than 25 meters. That means that at the mid differences your rounds may be too high.

If you are good with math, you can figure out where the MPI should be to be on at 36 yards if you have your heart set on the Marine Corps Zero, but I'd just use either the 50/200 or 100 yard zero.

As far as barrel length goes, much of the data out there (that I have at least) is for the 20" A2. Velocity out of your M&P will be lower and thus your ballistics will be off (your rounds will drop a little faster). I was never issued the M4 so I'm not sure here, but I'm pretty sure that the military is using the same basic system for battlesighting. If you can find M4 data, it will be based on a 14.5" barrel, so you can figure that your ballistics for the M&P are about 1/2 between the two sets.

[Swiss]

Thanks, all, for your replies.

You're right, I was referring to there not being "holes in the ground" at 36 yds. My favorite range is in fact Chabot, which is outdoor and has 25/50/75/100/200 yard distances (200 yd has limited public availability).

Assuming the M193 bullet path isn't much different in my 1:9 twist 16" barrel, my goal is to be centered at 300 yds when the elevation dial is set to 8/3...otherwise the markings are meaningless. Regarding the 25/200 method, I found the following post on another board where you keep the rear sight bottomed out at 8/3 minus 2 clicks until you get past 200 yards. Let me know what you think.

Originally Posted by JasonAC556
My first thoughts are to check your rear sight elevation.

Do you see any daylight between the sight base and the sight assembly? If so, you have the rear sight set at 800 yds instead of the 300 yd setting. That was the most common mistake I saw when getting people snapped in.

Crank your rear sight down to the 8/3 minus 2 point, set your front sight to flush, set your windage to zero, and go back to the 25 yrd line. Once you get your BZO move the target back to 50 yds. Observe your impacts. Adjust the front sight and windage to compensate as needed. Move the target back to 100 yds and observe your impacts. Adjust your front sight and windage to compensate as needed. Your rear sight should stay at 8/3 minus 2 until your target gets past 200 yards. All elevation adjustments should be made with the front sight up to this point. After that, use your rear elevation drum.

I hope this helps.

By the way, I used to teach people to shoot the M16 for a living, so I'm not guessing here. This is the proceedure the Marine Corps teaches for getting a rifle zeroed and it works.

[SCMA-1]

I've got some official 25 meter M16A1 and M16A2 sight-in targets that have the adjustment grid printed on them for easy battlesight zero adjustment. PM me your email and I'll send them to you.

SCMA-1

[Suvorov]

Thanks, all, for your replies.

Assuming the M193 bullet path isn't much different in my 1:9 twist 16" barrel, my goal is to be centered at 300 yds when the elevation dial is set to 8/3...otherwise the markings are meaningless.

Neither the Army or Marine Battlesights will give you POI at 300 yards. The markings on the rear dial are not really for precise aiming. The idea is that out to 300 yards the M-16 was a direct fire weapon, beyond that, it is intended (for regular grunts at least) as more of an area fire weapon. Don't get wrapped around the axle about the markings on your rear dial. Keep this in mind, if you are POI at 300 yards you will be way high at 200 yards, so make sure you rotate the rear turret one full revolution so you can adjust it down.

I'd just go with a 100 yard zero and then bring the rear sight up for 300 yards.

[Swiss]

Thanks SCMA-1. Actually, sbpete posted a link to it on Page 1 so I'm good to go. The only thing I'm not clear on is the "one click past 8/3 setting"...I presume it means 8/3 minus 1 click?

Well, you could just use the M16A2 25 Meter zeroing target.

I think there is a difference between the Army and Marine battlefield zero, not sure though.

This target was originally intended for a 20" bbl. Not sure if it was intended for m193 or m855, but changing bbl length to 16" or changing ammo will lead to a slight change in things. I could be wrong, but I really don't think trajectory is going to change enough to matter between zero and 300m between a 20" and a 16" bbl. Battlefield zero ain't the most precise setup in the world anyways.

[Swiss]

Neither the Army or Marine Battlesights will give you POI at 300 yards. The markings on the rear dial are not really for precise aiming. The idea is that out to 300 yards the M-16 was a direct fire weapon, beyond that, it is intended (for regular grunts at least) as more of an area fire weapon. Don't get wrapped around the axle about the markings on your rear dial. Keep this in mind, if you are POI at 300 yards you will be way high at 200 yards, so make sure you rotate the rear turret one full revolution so you can adjust it down.

I'd just go with a 100 yard zero and then bring the rear sight up for 300 yards.

Thanks. But if I'm centered at 300 and bottom it out (minus 3 clicks) for everything under 200yd, I'm hoping that'll put POI where I want it.