AR w/ BB Use Question

[rocky]

I have not yet had the pleasure of firing a black rifle, but when I do in the near future, I want to be sure not to do anything that would compromise the legal status of the firearm. I understand that having a fixed mag allows one to have an "evil features" rifle, but have been told that taking a magazine out of a an AR makes it an Assault Weapon. The point of a BB is so that you don't have to pop the receiver pin to load, so... what am I missing? Also, any suggestions on proper AR specific behavior while at the range/hunting?

[BillyGoatMachine]

Read the calguns homepage. Look where it says "New to Calguns, click here first"

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56818

[Josh3239]

I have not yet had the pleasure of firing a black rifle, but when I do in the near future, I want to be sure not to do anything that would compromise the legal status of the firearm. I understand that having a fixed mag allows one to have an "evil features" rifle, but have been told that taking a magazine out of a an AR makes it an Assault Weapon. The point of a BB is so that you don't have to pop the receiver pin to load, so... what am I missing? Also, any suggestions on proper AR specific behavior while at the range/hunting?

When BWeise wrote that removing the magazine will automatically create an AW, this was before the invention of the bullet button. During that time you had to "top load" the rifle. Bill has been planning on updating this for some time, but hasn't had the chance.

As long as you are using some form of the appropriate maglock (bullet button, B15,B16, Raddlock, etc) you can remove the magazine.

[paintballergb]

Read the calguns homepage. Look where it says "New to Calguns, click here first"

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=56818

This should answer your first question. As for your second. Don't do anything to draw attention to yourself. Just shoot like you would properly shoot any rifle.

[oaklander]

Welcome to the forum and welcome to EBR (evil black rifle) disease!

Whoever told you that removing a mag from a Bullet Button-equipped rifle would make it into an AW is flat wrong.

If a rifle has a bullet button, it is considered a "fixed-mag" rifle under the law as written. The fact that you have to use a tool to remove the mag means that it is NOT a detachable magazine rifle, as far as the law is concerned.

Please see this Caguns wiki article:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Non_detachable_magazines

It explains everything very well!!!

I have not yet had the pleasure of firing a black rifle, but when I do in the near future, I want to be sure not to do anything that would compromise the legal status of the firearm. I understand that having a fixed mag allows one to have an "evil features" rifle, but have been told that taking a magazine out of a an AR makes it an Assault Weapon. The point of a BB is so that you don't have to pop the receiver pin to load, so... what am I missing? Also, any suggestions on proper AR specific behavior while at the range/hunting?

[rocky]

Thanks guys. Back to digging through the mountain of AR-ticles...

[BillyGoatMachine]

Thanks guys. Back to digging through the mountain of AR-ticles...

That's where everyone should start. Sorry to be a bit snippy with my first answer, but there's like 5 posts a day exactly like yours that people post before they read anything. Let's start again, "Welcome to Calguns".

[craig1090]

I have the same question as the OP. I've heard from LEO and reading through the papers on this website, that even with the Bullet Button and any or all evil features, you CANNOT have an empty mag well. Period.

Funnny thing about the LEOs was I found it out the hard way...I was in a gun shop handling an AR with evil features and a BB. I used a bullet tip to drop the mag, and the LEOs kinda "gasped" and said, "Just FYI, that is considered a felony, having an open mag well with evil features on the AR". So that made me think a little bit (since I really dont want to be made an example of an over-zealous LEO in the near future)

I've read this over and over again: "NEVER HAVE AN OFF-LIST LOWER RECEIVER WITH AN OPEN MAGAZINE WELL AND A PISTOL GRIP OR FOLDING (etc.) STOCK STILL ATACHED - EVEN FOR A MOMENT!!" in the documents on this website.

So at the moment, I am really confused and nervous to say the least. I am only 22 and I've heard that people under 30 typically get hassled more for AR related things.

So if anyone can point me to a legal documentation or DOJ letter that specifically states that an AR-15 equipped with a Bullet Button and evil features can have an empty mag well, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!

I know there are tons of other people in the same position as myself, who would love to have written proof, not heresay from forum members.

Thank you for helping us n00bs out!

[Josh3239]

Craig, I just explained. This was the thought process before the bullet button was created. If you reread Senate Bill 23 it specifically states you may use a tool to drop the magazine, it specifically states that a tool can be a bullet tip.

That is the whole point of the bullet button, after all what good would it be in state if you couldn't drop the mag. It certainly wouldn't be useful out of state.

Sounds like your LEO got the old info. Also, LE seems to vary by county. I am not sure if I'd say black rifles are common in Ventura but I have never been harrassed or bothered by LE or private citizen. I am 21 in two months and probably look like I am 18. I carry the law printed from the DOJ's website with me though, not required, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Also enclosed in that folder is a couple pages on search & seizure law.

[craig1090]

Thanks Josh3239 for helping us out.

I like your idea of printing out the DOJ printed law. I printed out the Sacramento Dectective's memo regarding the Bullet Button and put it in my gun case. However, no where in the text does it mention the legality of an empty mag well with a bullet button. That is the only part I am a little confused on. I understand the detachable mag situation, but am a little concerned with the open mag well issue, especially since the only text regarding it says "NEVER have an open mag well with any evil features"

[Josh3239]

...especially since the only text regarding it says "NEVER have an open mag well with any evil features"

What says that? The Sacramento memo?

[craig1090]

No, the Sacrament Memo says nothing about the legality of an open mag well with the BB. The "AR/AK Memo" on the homepage says its a no-no, and so does THIS from the New Member section. Check them out. The hyperlink has the info about the open mag well near the botton in BIG BOLD letters in a box. You can't miss it.

[Josh3239]

Your refering to an out of date memo. Check who wrote it, our very own Bill Weise (BWeise), you can pm him on here and even he will say it is outdated. Look at the date, Jan 06. The bullet button wasn't around back then, back then the only magazine lock that existed with the standard mag lock. I think the way it worked was the magazine spring was just changed to a hollow rod.

Now with the bullet button even with the magazine removed the bullet button remains in the locked position. Obviously you can just insert the mag, it still remains locked. Much like a normal, "free state AR15" you don't push the mag release button to insert a mag.

The only time the bullet button "unlocks" is when you push it with a bullet tip. So yes you can drop the magazine.

[craig1090]

Josh, you are the man!

I think I'm going to have to PM Bill Weise. Just to cover my bases, I would like to see some kind of documented proof about all this. Sounds like he is the guy to talk to.

Again, thanks Josh for helping us n00bs out. I really think they should update those memos, makin us all more confused than we need to be...

[Josh3239]

Gah, I spelled his name wrong (sorry Bill!). You can send him a PM to his username which is Bwiese