Thordsen FRS-15 not really featureless?

[Mr. Monday]

The Thordsen FRS-15 definitely seems like the most comfortable featureless option and it has quickly become one of the most popular featureless options. However, after reading the requirements for a featureless grip I am having a hard time seeing how the FRS-15 can be considered featureless. According to the law, the webbing between the thumb and index finger has to be above the highest point on the trigger when firing the rifle. As you can see in the picture below, the webbing rests just below the top of the trigger thus making it a pistol grip.

When the AR-10 adapter is used with the FRS-15 then the webbing is even further below the top of the trigger.


I have seen some arguments that because the FRS-15 is a stock and not a grip that it doesn't matter that the webbing rests below the top of the trigger. If this is true then why would there need to be a CA version of the Hera CQR? The Hera CQR is clearly a stock just like the FRS-15, so why does there need to be a CA version to make it compliant?

[scotty99]

There is a prohibition against thumb hole stocks, which is what the Hera would be considered. Thordsen avoids this by having no connection between the stock and buffer tube.


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[eric_650]

The Thordsen stock is being sold on rifles all over the state. I'd say its no more risky than buying a bullet button gun in the past years.

[SkyHawk]

New guy wants to rehash what has been hashed and rehashed a thousand times already. Smells like troll, maybe probably even a sock puppet for that dumb magic line thing.

[Mr. Monday]

The Thordsen stock is being sold on rifles all over the state. I'd say its no more risky than buying a bullet button gun in the past years.

Being sold all across the state makes a product legal?

New guy wants to rehash what has been hashed and rehashed a thousand times already. Smells like troll, maybe probably even a sock puppet for that dumb magic line thing.

Harsh.

I am building an expedition takedown rifle with barrels, bolts, and mags for 5 calibers in a compact 15"x10.5" hard case. Barrel length is a limiting factor as far as case size is concerned and 16" is the longest I can go with the 15"x10.5" case. The other limiting factor is lower carrier size with the kicker being that the rifle must be featureless. I refuse to use a fin so my options are either the FRS-15 gen III, Ledesma grip, hammerhead, or liberal grip. Of these options the Ledesma and FRS-15 seem the most comfortable. However, since I have space restrictions the Ledesma is much more compact when combined with a quick release buffer tube adapter . I am just having trouble understanding how the Ledesma is any more illegal than the FRS-15.

If I wanted to use the FRS-15 I would have to come up with a quick release grip system because the FRS-15 would have to be uninstalled from the lower receiver before storing it in its case.

[eric_650]

Being sold all across the state makes a product legal?

You tell me what doo-hickey, is and was, deemed officially legal that put ARs and AKs on the shelves after every legislative ban.

You bring up legality when I said products being sold all over the state involve a certain risk factor, whatever it may be, because there is NO legality ruling on these compliance products, including the bullet button.

[Q]

http://masterarmsllc.com/product/mgi-marck-15-hydra-new-york-compliant-modular-rifle/

The one above is $1200 but actually you can buy the whole rifle now for around $600 without the thordson. So add the cost of a thordsen and around $600.

The price really went down on these and everything AR. I think the lower used to be $500 by itself.

[Mr. Monday]

You tell me what doo-hickey, is and was, deemed officially legal that put ARs and AKs on the shelves after every legislative ban.

You bring up legality when I said products being sold all over the state involve a certain risk factor, whatever it may be, because there is NO legality ruling on these compliance products, including the bullet button.

Some products certainly involve more risk factor than others.

http://masterarmsllc.com/product/mgi...modular-rifle/

The one above is $1200 but actually you can buy the whole rifle now for around $600 without the thordson. So add the cost of a thordsen and around $600.

The price really went down on these and everything AR. I think the lower used to be $500 by itself.

Where can I find that for $600?

I prefer the DRD tactical upper combined with MGI lower but for $600 Ill settle.

[REDdawn6]

[Mr. Monday]

go easy on me

[jdben92883]

Good grief. Not even worth the time to Photoshop. Go do what's already been done 1000 times and use a ruler to trace a line that bisects the webbing and you'll see that in every configuration, the line is above the trigger.

When you say, "as you can see...blah, blah, blah", no I don't see that at all. The Thordsen stocks are 100% legal for featureless.

[FUCA2AFTW]

Obviously a large hand with long fingers can pull the trigger with the web below "the magic line". Since a genius told me on another thread that every hand in the world will be considered when determining the legality of a grip/stock, then I guess it is NOT featureless???

In fact, the curl of the grip ("no it's a stock gawdamnit!!!" "okay, whatever")...meaning the location where the tangent line of the semicircular curvature is vertical and perpendicular to the "magic line" is actually in the same location (relative to "the magic line") as the curl on the AR lower receiver itself...it's just further away from the trigger (horizontally).

What is truly needed for a meaningful law...in addition to the web vs. "magic line" vertical orientation...is a specification of the angle of the grip/stock relative to the "magic line"; and also, possibly, the distance behind the trigger at which the grip/stock allows the web to reside while firing the weapon.

[FUCA2AFTW]

NOTE: I agree with most everyone here that the biggest travesty of all is that the asinine CA laws are causing such bickering as we're seeing here.

[Q]

Some products certainly involve more risk factor than others.



Where can I find that for $600?

I prefer the DRD tactical upper combined with MGI lower but for $600 Ill settle.

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=mgi&Sort=13

The magwell comes off so maybe a ffl here would accept it broken down?
I always wanted one. The upper with nothing else is $600 on their website. So buying the complete one is actually a good deal.

[Rigma]

NOTE: I agree with most everyone here that the biggest travesty of all is that the asinine CA laws are causing such bickering as we're seeing here.

Agreed. More effort restoring our right to hold a rifle as we so choose and less time spent attacking each other and those attempting to provide us adaptive solutions to bad law would be more fruitful.

Seriously, if the people that write restrictive gun laws have no understanding of the mechanics of a gun...and/or lack of respect for the constitutional right bestowed upon us...then trying to interpret the restrictions is absurd.